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Zugg
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Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:11 am   

Stupid UPS!
 
OK, maybe someone else knows more about UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supplies) than I.

The UPS for Chiara's computer just starting beeping madly for like 2 minutes straight. *Really* annoying. When I look at the front panel, it has a red light that says "Replace Battery".

OK, correct me if I've wrong, but isn't the entire UPS just one giant battery? Isn't "Replace Battery" basically the same as "Replace entire UPS"? Or is there some other small battery that I don't know about. I don't see any other battery slot on it.

It's a Connext UPS that's several years old. So maybe it's just time for a new one. But the idea of a "Replace Battery" light just made me laugh (in that bad way). Just seemed really stupid.

Unless I'm missing something.
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MattLofton
GURU


Joined: 23 Dec 2000
Posts: 4834
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:33 am   
 
Quote:

OK, correct me if I've wrong, but isn't the entire UPS just one giant battery?


If it were just one giant battery, why bother with the electrical cord? ;)

It's probably more like a clock radio with battery backup, where you have a circuit board and other electronic computery stuff, cord leading out of the appliance, and a battery connected somewhere inbetween. The battery is probably charging or something if an electric current via the cord is detected, and more than likely charged itself to death.

This same issue comes up with electric shaving systems (clippers, beard trimmers, etc) as well as most cellphones and other battery-powered devices (even your desktop computer has a battery that can go bad), and the manufacturers advise you to disconnect the device if you aren't going to use it for a while rather than keeping it charging that whole time.
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slicertool
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Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 459
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:12 am   
 
There are replacement batteries for UPSs that you can order. I've had to replace them for places that I worked. Now, the question of how much would they cost is not in my department, because they just handed me a battery and told me to install... I wasn't in on the purchasing process.
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Rainchild
Wizard


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 1551
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:25 am   
 
Good UPS's have a whole bunch of circuitry and filters which 'condition' your power to remove surges/spikes and boost brownouts/dimmers... so yeah they have a huge battery, but they also have this other stuff as well... now I'm not sure what the price point is, but replacing the battery might save you 20-50% of the price of the unit (depending on what unit you bought) ... I'm not sure, I haven't had to replace our UPS at work yet. Mind, ours is made from a 2RU primary module and a 2RU extended battery weighing in close to 100 kilo's combined, so it's a bit of a whopper. Powers the entire server cabinet, phone system for about 50 handsets, and network (including wireless) infrastructure for a good 3-4 hours so people with laptops are unaffected by any power outages... pretty sweet, if only I had one for home so I could keep playin' compuer games while the neighbourhood is in pitch blackness :)
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Zugg
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Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:27 am   
 
Matt, I think you misunderstand. The UPS is a giant battery that powers computers (and anything else plugged into them) when the power fails. There is no way to "disconnect the device if you aren't going to use it". That's what the UPS is supposed to take care of. It's like a giant car battery that is constantly kept charged so that when the power fails it can switch-over to the big battery. And I assume it's this big battery that it says needs to be replaced, and that seems like 90% of what the UPS is.

Slicertool: I'll check to see if I can even get a replacement battery for it since it's a couple of years old. My guess is that the battery is going to cost about as much as the UPS, and probably more than buying a newer UPS.

In any case, it seems like the UPS wasn't designed properly if it's going to let the battery go bad after just a couple of years. It should have some sort of sensor and not charge the battery when it's already charged.

Batteries are becoming a bigger and bigger issue with me. I think these companies are just getting greedy. It's like printers where the ink cartridges cost more than the printer. I've got some portable phones that are constantly going bad because they stay in charging cradles and the batteries go bad. How hard is it to just not charge the battery when it's already charged? Seems like the designers of these charging cradles just take the cheap way out and *want* you to have to buy new batteries.

I've had this trouble with phone batteries, laptop batteries, etc. I understand all about "battery life" and the charge cycle and how you need to cycle batteries to keep them useable. OK, fine, so why don't the devices have the smarts to do this themselves? Perhaps have some sort of trigger where it only charges once it detects the battery level dropping below half, or something like that which would excercise the battery a bit more and not overcharge it all the time.

I just get annoyed when we have all of this high-tech stuff and yet nobody seems to have a way to deal properly with charging batteries.
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slicertool
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Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 459
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:38 am   
 
That is the major problem for laptop and hybrid car manufacturers right now is the quality of batteries. There hasn't really been a 'break-through' in the consumer market for batteries in the past 10 years. Fuel-cell technology is the next big thing and it's fairly far out on the horizon. At least the hybrid car manufacturers like Toyota know how to manage a battery. They try to keep their batteries between 30 and 60% health to maximize lifetime. Otherwise, it gets unhappy from being too drained or burned out from being too charged.
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Vijilante
SubAdmin


Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 5182

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:47 am   
 
Actually nickle-cadmium are the most affected by the cycle thing you describe. I am always quite careful to treat those right, even to the point of yelling at coworkers who put my work cell on a charger. Most laptops these days use a metal hydride battery, that is less sensitive being cycled like that, and has a generally longer power life.

Every UPS I have opened up though uses a lead acid battery, which is same type used in cars. Lead acid batterys are not meant to ever be fully discharged, as that can cause them damage. It is also occasionally possible to have 1 cell within the battery burnout, causing it to not hold full voltage anymore. That is likely the state of the battery. Personally I would open up the UPS, and check the numbers to see if a car battery would be compatible. If it was then I would build a set of external leads and put a 40$ car battery on it.
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edb6377
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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:42 pm   
 
Quote:
In any case, it seems like the UPS wasn't designed properly if it's going to let the battery go bad after just a couple of years. It should have some sort of sensor and not charge the battery when it's already charged.


In the case of computer UPS systems most have software you put on the pc that is connected to the UPS. It monitors the UPS and charges/doesnt charge based on the charge level. Not to mention giving you a bunch of information on power surges, levels etc.

And personally in any case.. if you have had it for 2-3 years then thats about the life cycle of most pc equipment now adays lol.. either due to design or due to preplanned obscelence. So it might hurt you to get a new one anyways.
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Taz
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Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1395
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:43 pm   
 
At work it is not unusual to see us replacing batteries in our UPS modules. 2 to 3 years sounds about right although some of ours last longer.

Vigilante is right about them containing lead acid batteries which is why from time to time we have to replace the whole module as one of the batteries inside puffs up and leaks, for a start it is now impossible to get the battery out and second with acid every where no one wants to do any work on it anyway.

Again as Vigilante said the whole unit/battery is often made out of a number of cells and the confusion occurs because the two terms have become interchangeable a battery is made up of a number of cells, when we go out and buy an AA battery we are actually buying a cell since it is made from only one electrolytic cell, see the Wikipedia entry for battery for more information on all of that nonesense.

This does mean that if your UPS is made up of a number of cells then it is highly likely that when it says to replace a battery you can get away with replacing the knackered cell. So then it becomes a point of cracking open the case and getting the multimeter out and checking which cell is no longer holding charge, of course you need to have a multimeter and a basic understanding of how to use it, not to mention the time on your hands to be bothering with messing about with all of this stuff in the first place, it will however definitely cost less than a brand new UPS.

As edb has mentioned, even though you yourself are despondant over the fact, most of this stuff just isn't designed to last anymore since how do the companys make money if you don't need to buy new units. Given your time constraints it is most likely that the best course of action is to go out and buy a new unit, I wouldn't even bother trying to get an extended warranty as it is unlikely to cover the cells only the electrical circuitry.
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:27 pm   
 
Yep, went out and bought a new one yesterday. Wasn't worth the time to deal with the old one. Cost more than a battery replacement, but the time it would have taken to track down a battery just wasn't worth it...I don't have enough time as it is.

Good thing we did this yesterday. Today a huge snow-storm came into Colorado and our power has been intermittent. And since Chiara's computer acts as our main database and email server, it's been good that the UPS on it is working.
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