Zugg Software :: View topic

Wanderer Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 88

I have given this topic much thought since CMUD was released as a public Beta and I have quite strongly held views.

In the 21st century when almost all[1] windows application automatically save and restore the last used position why is it necessary for users of Zugg Software's M* software to manually control this aspect of the program?

Should there even be an option to set/define layout?

Is it asking too much of new users to ask them to manually setup the position of windows whether it be the main window or child windows remembering that the vast majority of new users are not inclined to code?

[1] I say almost all however I am not using any applications other than zMud that does not save its position automatically.

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:26 am

I think the idea is that beginners will not be using multiple windows at all. It's only after you M*ed for a while do you start to think of the advantages of doing things like that.

I suspect it doesn't use automatic layouts is because everyone's layout preference is different. For example I saw a screen of Larkin's layout and I was suprised at the sheer volumes of buttons that he uses. edb3677 has an amazing number of functions in his status window. I myself prefer a simpler layout. With the advance layout options in zMUD and now CMUD allow us to organize the information the way we work best. I'm sure you've noticed people tend to organize the computer desktops (or even their work areas very differently.)

Perhaps with the advent of packages zugg can include a few common layouts or allow MUDs to publish packages that are optimized for them.

Wanderer Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 88

I am not talking about a default layout.. what I would like to see is automatic saving and restoring of everyones layout regardless of its configuration. If you do make a tell window and place it in a certain position on your screen whether that is docked as part of the main application or not then the next time you logon to that character the window should be exactly where it was when you shut it down. Every other modern windows application that I am aware of already does this by default.

Perhaps the reason new users don't use multiple windows is because the process of setting it up is so convaluted and quite frankly a pain in the posterior. Setting up a tell window for a new user should be as simple as using the (soon to be seen) trigger wizard to create an appropriate trigger, then moving the window to wherever they want it on the screen whether that is docked or not. The process you have to go through with zMud by savings settings files for the window then saving the layout is quite frankly too much for people new to the interface to comprehend in my opinion.

Magician Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 482

is it really so much harder to do save layout?

Wanderer Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 88

Wizard Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 1113 Location: USA

I agree with Ceres and I think there should be an option to auto-save your layout each time you exit the application. You do get used to certain behaviors in using applications on Windows, and this is definitely one of those behaviors. It's not difficult to save a layout when exiting, I should think. Making it optional (and default to on) would still allow the control freaks to play with their layouts and only save them when they have it all perfect.

Novice Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 38

I'd just be happy if I could get the layout I signaled as the layout to use to work.

Magician Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 482

I still dont understand the hoops. If you move your windows which any user will have to do as cmud cant do it for them and click save layout boom its there its saved. (what i mentioned above is the "100%" safe way to do it. Cmud and zmud already do this by default. Zmud saves the default layout for the session automatically when you first edit it.

Autosaving a layout means that each time i change my layout it will overwrite the one im working on as i move things around. It already saves on exit. I.E. if i move my tell window to the right and set it as a fly out and file exit when i log in its still there on the right side. just by clicking save layout.

as to the way a person could screw things up. Lets say they create a window they want. It crashes cmud. Then everytime they go into cmud its going to autocrash again because its been saved that way. Where as with clicking save layout they can restore it no problem. And which layout mind you do you save? The default layout or the sub layouts that each package will have? My tells package will have one layout my admins will have another and since many users actually pull scripts from those technically savy enough to write them they are going to run into those problems not just the scripters.

As to simple things like creating a trigger or layouts etc i would have to say research is key. I am sure in her position its important and I feel if you are going to use any software you should have to learn about it to a degree and i think the lack of help files being adequate (good examples for them to use which i addressed in another post) is the main reason they have problems. You cant expect to open microsoft word and know exactly what to do if you didnt take SOME time to read how that program works. You can only make it so easy before people have to take responsiblity to learn. [you apparently share a similar opinion in this regard

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:23 pm

Mostly people have already responded to this, but the answer is basically "ITS A BETA VERSION!"

Obviously CMUD will eventually save/restore layouts automatically. But because CMUD is using a completely different docking system from zMUD and there were a lot of issues with docking, I didn't want the 1.0 version to automatically save/restore layouts because restoring a corrupted layout could really mess up the ability to use CMUD and test other issues. So I added manual entries to the menu for saving/restoring layouts so people could test these features before they were automatted.

The way it will eventually work is that the layout file defined in the Session properties will be loaded automatically, and when you select Save Layout, this filename will be used to save the current layout. If no session is loaded, then using Save Layout will save to the CMUD.XLY default layout file, which is the layout initially loaded before any session is selected.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:27 pm

I have often had the problem in zmud where as i reopened my mud, it does not fill the whole screen. I always maximize it as soon as i open it and i close it maximized, but it never automatically opens maximized, even if the layout has been saved.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:21 pm

Yes, I'm aware of zMUD having that problem. That problem will be dealt with in CMUD. You'll already notice that CMUD sizes itself to take up the full screen (but without maximizing so that novice users don't get upset/confused when they try to resize the window normally). But CMUD will also handle the maximized stuff properly eventually.