Zugg Software :: View topic

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

I think the real question is 'do you still play MUDs'... of course he'd use zMUD to play... there's nothing out there better. But he may be more like me... play the MMO's and idle on the MUD's.

Even if eMobius got massively popular, I think Zugg would have the time to maintain each product... I mean something like:
Q1- Emobius
Q2- Zmud
Q3- Emboius
Q4- Zmapper

Would keep an agressive timetable on Emobius upgrades, whilst still getting all the MUD innovations we need.

When you think about it, zMUD is really a pretty complete product, it doesn't need to be continually upgraded, 1x a year would be more than enough :)

Or Zugg could get really successful and hire me to maintain something *halo* :)

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

zMud will always be supported. Zugg made the promise "free upgrades for life" for that product and he is among the most honorable men I have had the pleasure of knowing. While there is not much left to upgrade on zMud, I am sure as developments occur the list of things to do will grow and zMud will be updated.

Keep in mind that as always all the Guru's are volunteer supporters of Zuggsoft. Our opinions are not binding on Zuggsoft, and while they should be reflective of policies are not defined solely by Zuggsoft policies.

Rainchild, I actual pay Zugg to work on the help for zMud. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Zugg to hire anyone in particular.

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

Yeah I know, but its ok to dream, right? ;)

I mean, getting a job with Zugg would be like getting a job with Blizzard or Sony or ID Software hehe.

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:35 pm

Let's see if I can answer some of the questions and add to this discussion:

Do I still play MUDs? Actually no. I haven't actively played any MUD for about 5 years now. So, it hasn't really had much effect on zMUD support. I've still been very active supporting and improving zMUD even when I'm not MUDding myself. It's a time issue...I just don't have the time to spend hours playing MUDs anymore. My gaming time is split amoung a lot of other stuff, like pen/paper D&D, MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, console Xbox/PS2 games, etc.

As far as what might be added/improved in zMUD, I'm serious that there are definitely improvements that can still be made. I mentioned some in the New Years letter, such as spellchecking and improved scripting. The work I've done on zApp as introduced me to whole new ways to do scripting and interact with COM objects more efficiently. What I *won't* be doing is just adding stuff for the sake of adding it. I don't want zMUD to be "bloatware". I don't like what Microsoft does with products like Office where they just keep adding stuff just for the sake of releasing a new version. That's why you've seen the number of new versions of zMUD decrease...there just isn't as much to add anymore.

Rainchild...you want a job? I've got tons of stuff that I can use help with. I just don't know how we'd work out a good working relationship with such a huge distance between us. But email me privately and maybe we can come up with something. Darker has helped with the web site in the past, and Vijilante actively helps with the help files. And while money is low right now, there are other ways to compensate for work on various tasks. My main issue with getting help is that my standards are *very* high and it's been difficult to find people whose work is up to the high quality that I need. But there are certainly several people who have proved their abilities on these forums over the years.

Rorso, I've said several times that the zMUD customer base is *not* the audience for eMobius, so I'm not surprised by your comments. But you need to look beyond yourself. There are many more people who either have a small business or get a lot more email than you do that need something better than Outlook. But rest assured, the email market is so much larger than the MUD market that eMobius isn't going to have very much trouble exceeding zMUD sales. Especially with the marketing that we have planned. MUD clients don't need marketing, but an email client almost completely depends upon marketing, and I've got one of the best names in the business working with me now, which is extremely exciting. eMobius is meant to replace Outlook...not Outlook Express. If you use Outlook Express, then eMobius is probably not going to interest you at all. There is a *huge* difference between people who are content with Outlook Express, and people who *need* the full version of Outlook and are frustrated with it. I plan to write a "white paper" in the next couple of weeks detailing this a bit more, but basically, while there are a lot of competitors to Outlook Express (Eudora, Thunderbird, etc, etc), there actually isn't *any* real competitor to the full Outlook program itself. That is exactly where eMobius is aimed.

Will eMobius keep me too busy to work on zMUD? Certainly that will be the case while eMobius is in the initial development. But I think I have shown over the past few years that I can support multiple projects at the same time. While projects like zMapper and zExplorer might suffer, I don't expect zMUD to suffer much. Keep in mind that it's one thing to stop development on zMapper, which only has 500 customers, but a completely different thing to stop development on zMUD which has > 50,000 customers. There is no way that I'm going to annoy 50,000 customers. Fortunately, as we have already said, there isn't a whole lot of work needed on zMUD right now. So it doesn't take a lot of effort to keep it updated. But you certainly won't see any updates until eMobius has gone into a Public version. That's just because eMobius is going to take a *lot* of work to get initially written.

I really am driven by customer needs. If MUDs start to disappear and zMUD sales start to drop faster, than naturally I'll spend more time on other projects. People really need to understand this. I'm not going to spend much time on a product that doesn't have any customers (like zMapper). I will monitor this over time and adjust my priorities as needed. Since zMUD contacts the zuggsoft.com server every time you run it (to check for a new version of zMUD), it's really easy for me to monitor how much zMUD is actually being used. The same thing will be true for eMobius. Once eMobius sales are enough to keep the company going strong, I should have time to spend on "fun" projects like zExplorer and zMapper. But most of my time will go into the products that are actually selling like eMobius and zMUD.

Finally, I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself because this is important: eMobius *is* the future of Zugg Software. If eMobius is not successful for some reason, than Zugg Software will cease to exist. So, zMUD users should pray that eMobius is successful, because that's the only way they will ever see any more zMUD updates in the future. It doesn't matter if you think you will buy eMobius or not...that's not the issue. Even if every zMUD user bought eMobius, I wouldn't call it a success. eMobius has a market way beyond MUD players. I'm not asking zMUD users to buy eMobius...I'm asking zMUD users to be patient and to do what they can to support each other while I work on making eMobius a success. I'm asking zMUD users to continue to promote MUD playing in general, and zMUD as the best MUD client. And when a friend of yours complains about how annoyed they are with Microsoft Outlook, a casual mention of eMobius (once it's released) is also certainly appreciated. The more successful eMobius is, the better the chance for zMUD updates in the future.

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

You play WoW instead of MUDs? Sad

. It would be fun to try such a game but unfortunately I can't afford it right now.

I once mentioned on a game developer's forum that perhaps instead of making a 3D RPG that company should make a text game. That was a post to make a bit fun of some other posters who seemed almost obsessed about getting better graphics. While none from the company actually answered it was by some people met by laughter. I think it is the story that makes a game good and not the graphics alone. Even if the graphics is nice the game will not be good if the story is poor.

You can read a book and be amazed by its story. Sometimes you even have an idea how the characters in the book you just read look. Just like I sometimes use to wonder if what I read a moment ago was written in my native language or english. That happens even though my english has a lot of grammatical issues.

I like Zuggsoft which is why I get a bit annoyed when the focus isn't on my areas of interest Mr. Green

. Still I understand the need to get eMobius done for Zuggsoft to stay in bussiness.

There's a lot of software companies out there but Zuggsoft is one of the best I have met so far. Because unlike many other companies yours actually listen to its users, and talk back. A lot of other companies seem to have forgotten this or they have so many users that they just can't listen to everyone.

I hope eMobius will be a success and I suspect alot of other people on this board hope that as well.

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:00 am

I think Rainchild mentioned this also, but I find MMORPGs (like WoW) to be *very* different from playing MUDs. With WoW I can log in and kill stuff/get loot/etc in a short playing time. There really isn't much story (although WoW is a bit better than other MMORPGs in that regard).

With a MUD, it is more about the story, and more about getting together with a group and doing stuff together. While MMORPGs like WoW have groups and guilds, it's still different than playing a text MUD.

So, these are really two different types of games. MMORPGs are not just "MUDs with graphics", even though that's how some started.

We can really blame all of this on both the market, but also the gamers themselves. I've watched kids pick out video games. If they have flashy graphics on the box, I hear them go "Cooool!!". For the most part they don't read reviews...they go by the marketing, and sometimes name-brand recognition (can you say "Halo 2"?). In this environment, there is no way at all to get text-based games on the shelf or to expect the PS2/XBox-generation to buy them. Even story-based "Adventure" games like the incredibly good "Longest Day" or "Siberia" barely make enough money to support them, and they are all from non-US publishers and developers.

The closest thing you have to a "real" company making text-based MUDs is Simultronics. Other big MUDs have some money, but most of these companies understand that it's a waste of time to add much graphics to MUDs. I think what Gemstone and Dragonrealms did with their static images (that zMUD supports) helps in some situations. But with MUDs it's important to remain focused on story and content, not graphics. In that regard, there really isn't anything a MUD needs to do to improve from a technological point of view. We don't need fancy new protocols for MUDs. We just need better content for the story on the server end.

So, as I said, the main reason I don't play MUDs anymore is the time needed. I think MUDs require a much greater time committment than MMORPGs like WoW do. So, with my limited time I'm able to enjoy a couple hours of WoW now and then, but that's not enough time to get engrossed into a MUD.

And regarding eMobius vs zMUD again...also keep in mind that while you might not be specifically interested in eMobius, the technology being developed and used in eMobius is what's going to improve zMUD in the future. It's the whole "trickle-down" effect of technology, and the fact that I'm using newer and more modern development tools for eMobius. When I use these new tools on zMUD, that's where you'll see a lot of improvement. Things like the theming system, skinning system, COM object frameworks, scripting engine support, etc. I'm expecting a huge percentage of the new ideas and features for future zMUD versions to come directly from eMobius and zApp. Without having done eMobius/zApp, I might have never learned about some of this technology, or never purchased the updated tools and components.

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

Also, compare how many ppl still read books versus how many people watch TV... sure, it's awesome to curl up with a book sometimes, but there are far more people who curl up with the remote. Same with MUD's vs MMO's, they're different kettles of fish, but one is much more popular than the other.

I don't play MUD's anymore, I still log on my admin every day but don't dedicate the amount of time I used to. The MUD's in good hands though, I have a staff I trust and have put another in equal charge (with code access) etc who has basically taken over from me. I don't read books much anymore either.

It's interesting, I find I don't read much at all anymore, if there isn't a voice-actor in EQ2 for the person I'm talking to then I don't bother reading their little speech bubble. I found I did that a lot with Final Fantasy 10 too. I think I prefer voice acting in games now (though there is a fine line between acting and annoying, especially if they say the same thing over and over).

Perhaps it's a product of adult life (work, family, bills, etc) meaning we don't have the time for life's luxuries (such as getting engrossed in a good book) so we turn to these more casual / less time-consuming things for our short evening worth of entertainment. When you think about it, you get home at 6pm, by the time you've cooked and eaten dinner it's at least 7pm, then you're in bed at 10pm to go back to work the next morning. It doesn't leave much time in your day to get stuck in a book, or dedicate the kinda time a MUD usually expects of you.

... now if only they had the Matrix technology ... I'd love to play a MMMRPG which was _that_ real, even if chicken tasted like tasty wheat... :)

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Rainchild I think there's still time to read. I actually read some in a C++ book before I got to bed yesterday and I think I only read about 30 minutes. While I surely enjoy at times to read for many hours in a row I sometimes try to limit my reading.

I recognize your trouble with voice acting and I think it might have been caused by MUDs. In a MUD you read a lot but you also get used to skip reading large blocks of text. When you actually have to read you experience it as annoying as you have so many other things to do. It is as if the text is a block between action yet to come. There's a certain stress element in a lot of MUDs. They aren't necessarily designed with story in mind or even if they are their stat system discourages it. In the MUD I play the more skilled(depending on how they decide to play) players have reached max level in perhaps 200-400 hours. For some it takes a bit more of time though and leveling only becomes slower.

A good method to level quickly is to run through a set of areas attacking good mobiles in each of the areas. Grouping is preferred as it gives some bonus XP. The issue here is that you play more actively than in most graphical rpgs. You have to process a lot of text and eventually it becomes automated. Often descriptions in areas are quite unimportant. Instead you do some graph traversing and don't need to read much.

This is atleast my own experience and I think MUDs need to encourage reading more and perhaps have a calmer atmosphere. Text is their strength and making reading unimportant could make the game type less fun than it could be. Of course a stressful society might be to blame as well to reading annoyances.

I just need to mention I play graphical rpgs too so I don't sound like someone seeing MUDs as the only good game type Mr. Green

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