Zugg Software :: View topic

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:33 pm

While I was away, I thought about the issue with everyone needing to buy Zeus in order to run applications. I can agree that this isn't the optimal situation.

The question was, how to make money with something like eMobius (or any other "scriptable" application) when everyone has the text script, without making them buy the core interpreter.

Well, borrowing an idea from other scripting languages, here is what I think I will do:

There will be TWO versions of Zeus, a FREE version and a Paid version. There will be a third program that you can pay for which will encrypt a ZML text file and produce a Binary ZML file.

The Free version can *only* read the encrypted Binary ZML files. The Paid version of Zeus can read both the encrypted binary files as well as the ZML text files.

So, if you are a developer and want to write something in Zeus, you can do that just like with any other language. You buy the Full version of Zeus, along with the additional encryptor tool. You write your ZML application, then encrypt it and distribute it. This allows *anyone* to run your application with the Free version of Zeus. The disadvantage of this is that customers with the free version of Zeus will not be able to customize your application. It will work just like an application developed in another language.

If the customer wants to customize an application, then they need to buy the Full version of Zeus. They can still run the binary ZML file, but they can also write their own "plugins" in a ZML text file to customize the operation.

If the Zeus application also has a separate DLL file that is licensed, then everyone still needs to pay for this DLL in order to run the application, regardless of whether they are using the free or full version of Zeus.

For example, if eMobius consists of a $30 DLL file, then anyone with the free version of Zeus can run eMobius if they pay $30 to register this DLL file. But they cannot customize eMobius in any way. They can pay the additional $30 for a full version of Zeus and then they can customize eMobius as much as they want, and they also get access to the ZML source file for eMobius.

I have thought about this for a few days, and I don't see any drawbacks for this. I think this will encourage more people to use Zeus for application development, and yet I think the people interested in end-user customization will still want to buy Zeus for the full benefit of the technology.

I'd be interested in comments on this idea.

Adept Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 224 Location: USA

Hrm. Good idea.

Not really much I can say about it, I already paid for Zeus. Can I laugh at the people who can't customize their applications?

Nice idea with having registered dll files too.

Before I got to that part I was worried someone with the paid version could get emobius, encrypt it, and send it to a person with a free verion, and the paid person could do the customization for the freebie.

Meh, that made little to no sense eh?

Magician Joined: 13 Oct 2000 Posts: 463

This is a nice idea. I think that another way to look at it would be like Acrobate or Word... both of them have free viewers, but the app that lets you create or edit documents costs money. If you go this route make sure that it is made clear that people cannot redistribute the Zeus free runtime... people have to visit your site to get it. This helps make sure you can get your marketing message to people when they get the free interpereter... again, similar to Acrobat, Quicktime, etc.

Another consideration... since you're making a binary file, save the user some time... pre-compile runtime states and put it in the file. Since it's not human readable anyway, find some way to pre-compile the state you'd normally need to compile at runtime. That will make startups faster, and give people an incentive to compile their apps into binary form, as well as making it harder to decode the binary back to plain-text form.

Make sure that the free viewer is not transparent... people should know what they're using. It doesn't have to be blatent (Real Player, Quicktime), but it should be visible (Acrobat), not completely transparent and hidden (Word Viewer). A one time or occasional encouragement to upgrade (again, like Acrobat) is also a good idea.

All this is what a developer can do with the inexpensive $50 version of Zeus... create a runtime that anyone can use if they get the free viewer. You could also consider licensing a distributable runtime for $300 or so to developers that don't want to advertise for Zeus every time someone runs their application.

I would also like to mention one important way your product differs from Access and Lotus Notes... Zeus, in and of itself, does nothing. Access comes with MS Office, which many businesses have. Lotus Notes is run by many businesses. That's why developers can charge money for something that only runs in these environments... because many companies have already purchased those apps, so there is no extra cost.

But Zeus is not pre-installed in 25-50% of businesses already, like Notes and Access. It's a harder sell, so don't try and market it the same way. I think marketing it like Quicktime or Acrobat is a better fit... with a free viewer, and a paid content-creator, with an expensive 'redistribution' licensed version.

In the initial sale, you should be going for a budget price, with clear value for the product. Get Zeus out there, get people using it and creating content for it. Later, you add an IDE, and hike the price. You add a nag-free distribution license with a gold foil price tag.

The value of your product is related exponentially to the amount of content created with it. Every developer you sign up early on increase the value of your product in the future. Every person you get hooked on Zeus apps now is a potential product leader in the future, who directs the backend tools team to use Zeus. With any product that depends on user-created content for value, your initial releases should be priced to create market share, not heavy cash flow.

And, I think you'll get a lot more people willing to 'try out' Zeus development at $25 per license than $50 or $60. I agree that in the end, it'll be worth $50 or $60... but $50 is an investment, $25 is an impulse buy, and for an untested product that nobody has ever heard of, impulse buys are a lot easier to make. Put it out as a trial release, a technology preview, RC1, whatever. You need it for an income of course, or I'd say release the first version for free. But I think you'll get the same income (or more) at a $25 price point initially than a $50 price point.

Don't offer any options... it's $25, and you can run .zml apps, or compile .zmb binaries for distribution, that require a visit to www.zuggsoft.com/zeus to get the viewer. Let buyers know that in the future they will be able to make redistributable copies or single-binary copies (ie, embed the .zmb into the interpereter runtime). Big talk about future plans, but modest initial release (with a modest price tag). You want this initial release to be as risk free for potential developers as possible... something they can try and even start publishing with without a lot of hassle, but something that is limited enough they'll be willing to upgrade when the full v1.0 comes out.

Raven

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Magician Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 459 Location: USA

Not that it would matter, because the free version of zApp could only read the encrypted version and you'd need the encrypter app to modify and re-encrypt into something you could use... So, you'd need to buy software to save from buying software.

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:04 pm

Zeus never sends the entire script to the scripting engine. Take a look at the sample ZML files...how much of it is VB Script and how much is XML layout? A *lot* of it is XML layout. There is really no way to reconstruct the XML file even by setting breakpoints in the Script.

Also, at least with VB Script, much of the code gets compiled. Have you noticed that many times when you get a runtime error in a script there is no source code available? That's because it's compiled at that point.

And, as Slicertool mentioned, even if you could determine some of the source code, the free version of Zeus will not load any text files. You'd have to convert this source code into a encrypted version. And the encryption that will be used is 128-bit, which isn't a trivial thing to bypass.

Since the Encrypter tool is going to be more expensive than the full version of Zeus itself, there is no logic in someone trying to do this.

So, I think this is a pretty secure system. Also, since the free version of Zeus doesn't even have the code compiled into it to read unencrypted files, there is no way to hack the EXE file to get it to work.

The only thing that someone can do is get the Full version of Zeus and try to hack around the eLicense copy protection, just like in zMUD. Certainly possible, but getting harder all the time. And this isn't a market like MUD clients where hacking is going to be nearly as common.

Wanderer Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 76 Location: USA

Zugg, you my man, are amazing! This is a dream come true. I'll have to admit that I was a bit worried about Zeus at first. I liked the idea that I could create programs quickly and easily, but not being able to share them with people who don't have a use for Zeus kinda hurt my intrest in this. If you do, however, allow me to show off my programs to other users (who don't have to buy the full development product) then I think you've made an awesome tool that not only I will get alot of value out of, but that others will as well! Thank you so much!

Now... how about that documentation? Wink