Zugg Software :: View topic

Newbie Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 3

It's extremely unstable. It crashes EVERYTIME I use it. I haven't really had a good chance to actually see what it does, or even learn about how to use it, because it keeps crashing everytime I use it. Well, I don't know about you, but who wants to pay for something that keeps crashing or really unstable?

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

Perhaps you could provide a reproduceable method to cause these crashes. Then the problem could be examined and fixed.

Remember that zMapper is still in beta. zMapper remained in beta status for this long because there was a lot less interest in it then Zugg expected. Meaning it still does not have enough beta testers to find all the bugs and achieve a public status.

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:54 pm

A better solution would be to list system specs, and to check out the MS Jet/MDAC updates to see if they are applicable, starting with zuggsoft.com/data

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:31 pm

If you are going to be hesitant to use products that crash or have bugs, then you shouldn't use Beta products.

I could be like other companies and never release anything until it has been "finished" and heavily tested. If that was the case, zMapper probably would have never been released at all, and you certainly wouldn't be seeing any of the Alpha releases of Zeus or eMobius.

Instead, my software strategy is to release products early to get them into customers hands for those who want to take the time to test the software. This allows me to gather feedback on what the customers really want from their software. But this also requires a different kind of customer who is willing to help work with the software developer to test the software. It requires a lot more patience. It is not for people who just want shrink-wrapped products.

Honestly, I expect people who are beta testing to just buy the product. If you just plan to play with the product while it's free and stop when the 30-day demo is over, then you are not the kind of customer that probably should be beta testing products.

Also, if you don't understand how to properly provide enough details to reproduce a problem or crash, then you should also not be beta testing software.

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:00 am

Yep, what you said is all true. I don't expect people to buy a beta product unless they plan to help beta test. The advantage of paying for a beta product is that you get to participate in it's development and you usually get a price break. But yes, you are buying it on faith that it will eventually be useful to you (unless you are just buying it to support Zugg Software, which some people also do).

In the case of zMapper, it works perfectly fine for a lot of people. But it has not been tested on as many different system configurations and is much more sensitive to problems with MDAC installations. It also tends to work better on computers with Windows XP and all the latest service packs, rather than Windows 98 or older versions of Windows. So, for some people it works fine, and for some people it doesn't. That's why it's beta software.

But in general, even if a product is *not* a Beta Version, I'm still going to ignore any reports like this that don't even provide any details on reproducing the problem. This applies to zMUD, zMapper, eMobius, or whatever. Over in the Beta Forum there is sticky topic that links an article on how to make useful bug reports. Without the version of the product, the version of Windows, the exact error message, and the steps to reproduce that error, reports are going to be ignored.

Hey, at least this person tried it before buying it. The people that *really* annoy me are the ones that just buy it before even trying it and then complain if it doesn't work.

Novice Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 36 Location: USA

Uhm.. Zugg? Just a quick question here... but what point is it to be a beta tester, and go through all the frustrations of having it crash, and detail the process so it can be replicated if that user is going to have to pay just to use it once you do have a final version?
I know.. I make no sense, but that's me.

I would beta-test if it was worth my while to document everything. Not trying to be mean, or try to get free software from Zuggsoft.. Christ, I bought zMUD twice and lost 1 of the keys (which happened to be bought from you guys, not from eLicense (the #-#-#-# key type)). But to beta test, have to reformat your system should a crash of the software crash more than the software, just doesn't make it worth the time if I'm going to have to pay for the software once I've done 'my work' on it, ya know?

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

Well, you are overlooking a simple fact, you beta test because you want the software to be the best it can be. If it is something you expect to use and buy, then you might beta test to ensure that all the bugs you would encounter when using the product are fixed. Also, specially for software from Zuggsoft, you provide feedback about how development is going and what you would like to see added/changed, and the developer will hear your suggestions and be able to do something about it when the product is still at a stage where it can be more easily changed. However, most important of all, you beta test just for the satisfaction of helping the developer make a better product so that everyone else will enjoy it too.

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:14 pm

Also, beta testers almost always get to buy the product at a discount compared to the eventual public versions. Ask around in the beta forums if you want, but I think most of the beta testers have been pretty happy with the deal they have gotten and with how they have been treated and respected around here. But as Kjata said, a lot of beta testers don't care about the money, they just want to try to make the product better for themselves and everyone else.

I just wanted to distinguish beta testing on this site from a recent trend with other companies where users/customers just think that a "beta test" is a way to get free versions of the software before anyone else. Just look at the experience of most MMORPGS to see what I mean here...most of those people involved in betas have no intention of filing good bug reports or helping to improve the software...many just want to play for free and cancel their accounts as soon as it goes public.

That's very different than the type of beta testing we do here.

Beginner Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Estonia

Is here any work done recently on zMapper at all?
Would here be some term when it leaves beta status and becomes public?