Zugg Software :: View topic

Wanderer Joined: 26 Feb 2002 Posts: 81 Location: USA

I'm quite aware you are abadoning this format..however as its offering some conviences like the ability for me to simply share my work and work at mapping Modularly (Ie So Long as the Zone links havent changed..I can simply pop in a new zone to replace it without having to relink)..This allows me to split up the work at mapping any Mud..I can not see a way for this to be done with 6.30+ as you have consolidated everything into one file..
Even the joging between zones problem as well as doors between zones problems is easily worked arround..I cant find a work arround to your new format :)..Thanks..

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 6:57 pm

With the import/export features you can already do this in zMapper. Export the "zone" that you want. Then edit the resulting text file to change the map. As long as you keep the same ObjectID value for the rooms that are linked to other zones, you'll be able to re-import the file and still have it linked, just like replacing a *.map file in the old mapper.

Not sure what you mean by your last statement about doors between zones. 6.16 never really supported that, but the new format does.

And no, I have no plans to support the old map format. It was a *bad* format, subject to very easy corruption and bugs and because 6.30 and zMapper have a completely different architecture, there is really no way to generate a 6.16 map file from the 6.30 format very easily.

I understand what you mean by the modularity...that was a big design feature in the old mapper. But the feedback I got from users was that they'd rather have everything in one file to make it easier to move from one machine to another or share with friends, instead of messing with the multiple files and the complexity involved in handling the zone links, crosszone speedwalks, etc.

But with the flexible export/import in zMapper, you should still be able to merge multiple map files.

Wanderer Joined: 26 Feb 2002 Posts: 81 Location: USA

Hmm..I know 6.16 didnt like doors ..that was my point.I was willing to sacrifice it for modularity..Especally as I have 3 people *at this moment* working on this...Id try messing with your Import Export in Zmapper..but as you said yourself..Zscovert(or whatever its name is) is broken. Anyway..The question I had planned on asking are you going to publish your 'old' format? (I didnt say support..just publish)....ANd thanks for all your hard work.

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 6:26 am

zsConvert isn't used by the Import/Export in zMapper...those functions currently work fine and can be used. zsConvert is only used to convert the 6.16 map files. What you want to do is set up some import/export scripts withing zMapper so that people can create text files with their zones in them and then just use zMapper to import those zone text files. Do a sample Text export in zMapper to see some of the options supported and the types of files it generates. It will be a lot easier to just have people create their own zones in zMapper, export them to a text file, and then you just Import them into your copy of zMapper. There is no need to use the 6.16 format.

The 6.16 format is very complex and I don't actually have any plans to even publish it. I really don't want people using it at all once zMapper is released, and as I said, with the existing export/import, there really is no need to use the old format.

I'll consider adding some features to make multi-person map creation easier (like providing a starting value for the room id's so that they don't conflict between multiple people). Right now you might need to renumber the rooms in the text file created by the Export Text function so that they don't conflict.

Here's a more specific example:

1) Have each person create a new map and new zone in zMapper. Add one room to the map. Use the Export/Text option to export this room to a text file.

2) Have each person edit this text file and change the ObjID field (the Key value for the room, which starts at 1) and change the ObjId so that each person's zone starts at a unique number. For example, person A changes the room ObjID to 100, person B changes it to 200, person C changes it to 300, etc. (this would allow each person to have 100 unique rooms per zone. If you want more than this, just space these starting values out more).

3) Next, have each person open their map files again. First, delete the room that they added before. Next, have them use Import/Text to import their edited text file. Now, each person will have their room added back to their map, but the ObjID field of the room will be the new value.

4) Now, each person can map the zone, adding rooms to the map. The mapper will number the rooms starting with the ObjID value that you edited the first room to start at.

5) When each person is done with their map, they just use the Export/Text option again to export the entire Object table, along with the Exit table.

6) To merge all of these maps together, just use Import/Text to read them into a single map file.

7) Whenever people make any changes to their zones, have them Export a new text file, which you then Import. Any record with the same ObjID as an existing room will overwrite the existing room definition. Any record with a new ObjID will add a new room to the map.

There might be some minor issues making sure that each map has a different ZoneID value, but the above procedure should basically work with a bit of tweaking. All of the time and effort is in the initial setup. Once each person is working on a unique set of Room IDs then it's easy to merge them all into a single map.

Hope that makes sense.

Wanderer Joined: 26 Feb 2002 Posts: 81 Location: USA

Thanks..now I get it.(The problem Is my maps are in 616 format :|..I had problems converting at zmud 630 due to a very messed up directury structure which is techically unsupported which I need to clean up..)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:01 pm

I thought of one more step that needs to be added to the procedure that I gave you.

0) Have one person create all of the zones that you'll be mapping. Then, use the Export/Text command to export the ZoneTbl table to a text file. Have each of the other people use the Import/Text command to import that table into their map. This will ensure that everyone has the same zone structure to start with. This is similar to sharing the master map.zzz file in the old versions of zMUD.

Once everyone has the same zone setup, then each person can map a different zone and export it as described previously without a problem.

What I'll add to my to-do list is a way to renumber a room or zone within zMapper itself so that you don't have to export, edit, then import just to change the ObjID of a room.

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

Unfotunately Zugg, that process does not appear to work. I performed the exact same steps you described, and after importing the room I got one of two results:
1. The room would appear to be imported, but no room is displayed. Creation of a new room results in an error.
2. The room is imported and displayed, but the ObjId is back to 1.

I did manage to make the AutoNumber start at some other number other than 1, but it was not using zMUD. What I did was:
1. Create a new map in zMapper.
2. Create a new room in the map.
3. Close this new map.
4. Open the newly created database in Access.
5. Delete any record that may exist in ExitTbl
6. Export the ObjectTbl from Access
7. Delete the room from the ObjectTbl
8. Modify the text file to change the ObjId of the room to the starting number
9. Use Get Externat Data|Import... to import the text file with the changes
10. Open the database once more in zMapper and begin creation of the map

As you see, is the same process but using Access directly instead.

Kjata

Wanderer Joined: 26 Feb 2002 Posts: 81 Location: USA

Something on the same lines..Any chance at all that people can break off from a newer one and save the 'standard' files in the Old format???My computer is really having probblems with the newer stuff. ;)..Its old.

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:25 pm

Nope, I'm afraid you won't ever be able to create "old" map files. There is just no way to represent a lot of the stuff in the new database using the old format.

Perhaps if you post more specific information on the problems you are having then we can try to help more (please create a new topic for your post). I have a computer that is 5 years old that is able to run zMapper and the new zMUD just fine.

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

This is a bit of a stab in the dark... but I'm fairly sure that acccess has some way of generating multi-user databases using some special formula for autonum which (I think) is unique for each different computer.

If you follow along those lines, though, you should be able to have people making maps where room numbers don't ever get confused.

Also another way would be to use a GUID for each zone with each zone having its own independent numbering structure... or if you're brave, GUID each room and eliminate all possibility of ever having conflicts when importing maps.

I would think a GUID room would be too slow, but GUID'd zones with independent numbering would make good sense :)

-- Rainchild

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:56 am

Remember, maps are supposed to be zoneless. If you GUID rooms in a zone, then there is a real problem moving rooms to a different zone. Adds a lot of complexity.

I'll probably GUID rooms in some way. I already do this with Shapes and Images so that the Libraries of images can be easily exchanged and updated. And I'll have to face this problem when I do zExplorer anyway.

In the old AC Explorer, I kludged this by starting "user-created" rooms at an ID of 10,000 so that they wouldn't conflict with the room IDs downloaded from the master data file. But doing a better GUID solution would certainly work much better.