Zugg Software :: View topic

Newbie Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 7 Location: USA

Hello all,

I am a coder/owner who is tired of dealing with constant 'botters'. I enforce the rules, but i get ignored. I have nuked, banned, silenced, 0-exped and all I get is negativity/loss of players.

So, in responce, I decided to write a script to randomly check for input from players on a global channel. I began and then got lost. (ARG, why can't I just write it in C!?!?!?)

I know how to write it in C... but... I'm zMud-stupid lately. I suppose when you spend most of your time coding on a mud instead of playing, you lose your zMUD senses....

Anyways, some tips or help on this matter would be appreciated.

P.S. ZUGGSOFT RULEZ ALL, just needs to work in linux :(

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

quote:
Originally posted by CodeMaster Rapture

Hello all,

I am a coder/owner who is tired of dealing with constant 'botters'. I enforce the rules, but i get ignored. I have nuked, banned, silenced, 0-exped and all I get is negativity/loss of players.

So, in responce, I decided to write a script to randomly check for input from players on a global channel. I began and then got lost. (ARG, why can't I just write it in C!?!?!?)

I know how to write it in C... but... I'm zMud-stupid lately. I suppose when you spend most of your time coding on a mud instead of playing, you lose your zMUD senses....

Anyways, some tips or help on this matter would be appreciated.

P.S. ZUGGSOFT RULEZ ALL, just needs to work in linux :(

To detect a botter is not an easy task. There's also different kinds of botting. Some kinds of botting are easier to detect than others.

The general method to detect a botter is to (amusingly enough) use a bait. Let's take a look at an example output from a mud:

Room Name
Here is the room description
An innocent mobile
Yet an innocent mobile
A player is here attacking an innocent mobile

Now the player, depending on his methods, could have a trigger looking like #TRIGGER {An innocent mobile} {kill mobile}. The solution in this case is to snoop the player and echo the mobile short description on their screen... If the "kill mobile" command is sent from them the chance of them to be botting is quite high.

There's two ways to look at problems. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the players are using bot so heavilly. Is the game perhaps too difficult for today's stressed players?

Remember to be nice when handling these things. Many botters have quickly stopped botting after I discovered it. How did I solve it? I transferred them out of the area so that their triggers wouldn't work, and then I wrote them a note explaining the issue.
Of course if I detected it to happen again XP or even levels would be decreased on the characters(which I also mention in that note). There is a huge chance that a player leaves if you punish them at the first offense!(a player that could have been good for the game too but didn't realize botting was against the rules). (Also note that generally bots aren't very effective. Their effectivity usually comes down to the fact they can be online attacking the same mobiles for hours. Very seldom do they change areas automatically. Of course if the case was very serious I could have removed a few levels already at the first offense - but I wouldn't feel happy to do so.)

If things were way out of hand and botting just wouldn't stop I would talk with the players about the issue. Then tell them why I think botting is bad and how it affects the game. Also posting a note about it on one of the most read boards is quite nice. I wouldn't make examples like "Aron has been botting and is now banned" though as that just makes me look unprofessional. This way I could determine if the game is too tough which very well could be a reason that causes botting to start. If it isn't too tough I would (nicely) tell the players I would probably have to make the game tougher, and possibly allow botting, to balance it (and I assume most players dislike this Very Happy

).

To sum this up:
1. Go to the player and talk with them. Explain that botting is against the rules and unbalances the game. Tell them this nicely. If the player doesn't answer then transfer them to a safe area where the bot doesn't work. Then send them a note instead nicely explaining the issue. If this is the first time the player bots then avoid to punish them - else the chance the player leaves is quite large. This is a very sensitive part. Try to be calm and as nice as possible. You should absolutely not post a note such as "Player XYZ has botted" on a board for everyone to read or on a channel. This is a staff matter.

2. If the amount of botting is severe then write a note about botting on one of the most read boards(don't mention who has botted but that you know it occurs). Explain the issue nicely and write why you think botting isn't nice. Also talking on a channel about it can be nice to hear what others have to say about it.

3. Try to figure out why so many are botting. Is the game too difficult? Then perhaps the issue could be solved by making it easier? If the game already is too easy (after asking the players) the solution might be to make it tougher, and also then perhaps allow botting. You would tell the players about this possibility first though to hear what they say.

To enforce rules is easy but it is much tougher to do it in a nice way. Right now you might be seen as a bad admin by the players which would be why players leave. Remember that without them the game is nothing. Don't be too harsh on minor issues like botting or you'll one day find that you are all alone in the game.

Good luck with your bot issues Smile

Newbie Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 7 Location: USA

Thank you for your input. I have done all of what you have mentioned. I don't punish first timers, nor do I post it globally. I have had to a couple times (due to rather nasty players who thought I was useless and couldn't do anything).

The players say the mud isn't too hard nor too easy, but as usual, things need tweaking. My main problem is EXP botters. I've put in a NO_EXP flag (player toggle) for people who like to train thier skills/spells.

I have also been kind enough to ask players why they were botting. The comments I receive are usually along the lines of, "I didn't feel like sitting around to exp" or "What does it matter? It is only a game". This is aggrevating when you are as nice as you can be. I don't run a large mud, mainly for newbies who are learning how to mud. I have the rules posted, and they must read and agree to each rule before they can play. I also have mentioned making the game a bit harder (lots of imm bashing there) and I have suggested easier (even more imm bashing).

It is as if the players don't care, at all. I've even given specific players jobs (like cops) to find botters. They get a command to transfer the person to a special room where the player can't do anything. These "cops" are my very most trusted players (only 2 at the moment).

All I want to do is write a script that randomly does this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who
(read players listed)
info Bot check, chat soemthing or else.
(wait 30 seconds for each player to chat something)
(if no responce, snoop + alarm self)
(^-- this is to be done by me, I just need something to warn me of a potential botter so I can react. I'm usually just on another screen coding.)
(if responded:)
info Thank you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your time,
CodeMaster Rapture

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

quote:
Originally posted by CodeMaster Rapture
All I want to do is write a script that randomly does this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who
(read players listed)
info Bot check, chat soemthing or else.
(wait 30 seconds for each player to chat something)
(if no responce, snoop + alarm self)

Sadly your design of this wouldn't work. The bot check would perhaps work 2-3 times(if even that) until most players get used to get the "Botcheck: Are you here?" question... What will happen? Well if they bot as much as you say they'll make the bot reply.

Example:
Player: *botting*
BotCheck: Hello Player. Are you there?
#TRIGGER {BotCheck: Hello Player. Are you there?} {reply of course} (or other string taken from a list of replies).

As you probably see it wouldn't work. A system like this would instead annoy players and you the issue of players leaving could increase.

Adept Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 224 Location: USA

I am sorry to hear about your problem, but rorso is right. I do not believe there is a way to eliminate botting all together. I have seen bots from the average afk bot to just stay connected by casting spells and eating/drinking, levelings bots (xp bots) and a hell of a complicated dummy bot (basically, one player has full control of another players actions, from speaking to sleeping to killing, and all tells sent to player a are forwarded to player b so player b can react as if they were player a).

If there are specific players who just do not respect the effort the imms put into the mud to play honestly, then maybe they do not belong there. Many honest players will simply stop botting if confronted or asked nicely about it, but then there are others who never have and never will, regardless of what you do.

Beginner Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 13 Location: USA

Just my two cents, but as a player who regularly bots and considers it a challange to circumvent such automatic botcheck measures as you describe, I would like to throw an idea out there.

Most players bot because they're bored. The main goals of many muds is to advance your character to a point where you can accomplish goals, usually to kill bigger mobs or to PK effectively. Most muds only offer one repetitive way of attaining this goal, kill lots of mobs. It might benifit you to spend your time adjusting your mud to implement a strong quest system in which participants can earn large amounts of XP by completing a series of quests that requires them to be at their keyboard. Its one thing to make a bot that can kill mobs 24/7 but another to be able to answer a series riddles that change every other day. Perhaps employ quest coders instead of botting cops.
Reward the people who quest, and let the botters bot. When the people who interact with your quests surpass the botters in a short period, bots will become next to worthless.

Wizard Joined: 14 Oct 2000 Posts: 1368

quote:
Originally posted by SolReapr

Just my two cents, but as a player who regularly bots and considers it a challange to circumvent such automatic botcheck measures as you describe, I would like to throw an idea out there.

Most players bot because they're bored. The main goals of many muds is to advance your character to a point where you can accomplish goals, usually to kill bigger mobs or to PK effectively. Most muds only offer one repetitive way of attaining this goal, kill lots of mobs. It might benifit you to spend your time adjusting your mud to implement a strong quest system in which participants can earn large amounts of XP by completing a series of quests that requires them to be at their keyboard. Its one thing to make a bot that can kill mobs 24/7 but another to be able to answer a series riddles that change every other day. Perhaps employ quest coders instead of botting cops.
Reward the people who quest, and let the botters bot. When the people who interact with your quests surpass the botters in a short period, bots will become next to worthless.

I think the main issue is the level system. The main idea behind a level system, I think, is to synchronize everything to it. For each level the character becomes a bit better. Botting is not the only thing an admin has to face that causes balancing issues. Another issue is "tanking" where a high level player helps a low level player. It could be summed up as:

quote:

Level 1-4
4 gold pieces/mob

Level 4-8
8 gold pieces/mob

Level 8-12
12 gold pieces/mob

Level 80:
200 gold pieces/mob

The main issue is that when a level 80 gives resources to a level 2 player(the level 80 player can retrieve any tough-to-get eq to the level2). In a way level systems aren't very nice because of this reason, and when it comes to PVP you can usually determine the outcome by looking at the levels alone.

A friend to me once told me that many MUDs don't have any goals. The goals are just bragging rights. When he told me that I didn't believe him of course but with time I have sadly realized it to be quite true. In most muds there is no tactic that can advance yout character. Once you have chosen the classes you know what skills the character will get. Any change is too late and finishing the character will take around 200 hours or more. In a way I could just sit down with my calculator and add numbers until they reach 400.000 to get a similar experience many muds give.

Adding stories to it, and quests involved with those stories, makes it more fun. Atleast until those high level players begin to run around helping the low levellers with all the quests... Very Happy