Zugg Software :: View topic

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 8:38 pm

Yes, the long wait is over! After more than 2 years of development, the new public version of zMUD is available.

While there are still some very minor bugs in this version that will be fixed in the public version due in January, overall this version is the fastest and most stable version of zMUD yet!

But there are some issues to be aware of. First, read the Migration Guide. It contains important information describing some of the new features and discussion how to deal with potential problems during the upgrade.

In particular, when you install and run this new version, you will be required to re-enter your registration code. Simply click the License button, then enter your registration code into the Order ID field, then click Install License. If you are behind a proxy server, click the Proxy button.

If you have lost or forgotten your reg code, go to your eLicense Control Panel, double-click on Zugg Software, then right-click on zMUD and select License Receipt.

The new version of eLicense used in zMUD 6.40 has support for Windows XP Fast User Switch and also has better proxy support. So, if you have had trouble with eLicense in the past, this version should be better.

If you have trouble with the upgrade or have trouble with any of your scripts after upgrading, please post your questions in this forum (in a NEW TOPIC PLEASE) and one of the Gurus will try to help you. While a lot of effort is made to maintain backwards compatibility with your scripts, maps, etc, there are sometimes unforseen issues that will require you to rewrite part of your script.

This version has been tested more than any other version of zMUD in it's history. The beta testers have been very happy with the faster speed and new features like VBScript/JScript support and support for zMapper, which lets you add all sorts of enhancements to your maps. I hope you like this version as much as they do. It's been a long, hard 2 years of development since v6.16 which included a complete rewrite of the mapper module (over 60,000 lines of code itself), but I think it has been worth it.

As always, UPGRADES ARE FREE! I'll continue to work at adding the features that YOU want, and fixing any remaining bugs.

Also, stay tuned in January: a new version of zMUD will be released before Feb 1st 2003 that will contain built-in support for Simutronics games!

So tell your friends...get them playing MUDs. MUDs are still some of the best games available, and I remain committed to making zMUD the best MUD client for PC/Windows. Don't be fooled by claims of other MUD clients...try them yourself and then make a judgement. zMUD is the only client that has been around for over 6 years which offers free upgrades and continues to be written BY MUD players FOR MUD players. Nobody else can match our support or our features and ease-of-use.

Happy zMUDding and happy holidays!

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 114 Location: USA

I am sorry to be a jerk and say this, but many people do agree. The program itself is great, but elicense detracts from it quite a bit. Yes, alot of people purchase the program legally, and register it, but when their order ids start messing up because of elicense, they do what most people have done, they go download the proxy crack, and crack it. Although that is fixed in 6.40, I can tell you this much, as long as you use elicense, you will have more and more people losing their trust in zuggsoft. Elicense although has been around for a few years has cost alot of people quite a sum of money, because of lost order ids, or problems with upgrading, and people do not feel like standing around and waiting for all the crap with elicense to get fixed. Easiest way of avoiding losing anyone that would purchase the program is to just license it differently. Its sad, because no matter what you do either way, there will always be a crack made for the program. You could do everything in the world to try and stop it from being cracked, and there is only one way that would really work, and thats to never again release it to the public.
Hope you all understood what i was trying to say.

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|Demone YoungBlood|
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GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

What problem exactly do "most people" have with the Order ID's and with eLicense? (Besides wanting to use the program for free and eLicense stopping them)

I guess that I must have the eLicense complaint filter on for this forum because somehow I seem to miss the hoards of posts that should be comming in from the ever increasing user base that has these problems.

Kjata

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 114 Location: USA

Ok Kjata, that was a neat bit of sarcasm, but lets get realistic. People know zugg likes elicense because it makes Zmud "harder to get for free" keyword: harder. I can promise you right now, give a few people a week, and there will be a crack for 6.40 too. Not just because they can, but because too many people seriously are fed up with elicense. I have in all truth started cracking my zmud because i got tired of the elicense crap. So have almost all of my friends that have LEGIT order ids. When it runs into problems, it takes way to long to resolve them, so they do what most people would, they go and find an easier way of dealing with it, where they are not hassled. If you think im the only person that has trouble with elicense, wait a few hours, im sure youll have more posts on the matter.

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|Demone YoungBlood|
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Apprentice Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 132 Location: USA

No I don't think people will understand what your trying to say. Your saying to either make the application completely vulnerable to being stolen or not release it at all.

I can tell you that most people do not have a problem with elicense. Yes occasionally people do, but they are also usually resolved in fairly short order. As far as lost product codes ect, it is no different than the multitude of other games out there that require valid CD keys. How do those people recover thier CD keys if they lose them?

Emailing the company and asking to replace the CD key usually doesn't work because they have no record of your purchasing their product. So at least you can email Zugg and recover your key. Just need to tell him who you are so that he can verify that you actually bought the software.

It sounds to me like you may not have purchased the program and are now upset that they have broken your ability to use it. Well too bad if you ask me. Spend the $25 and register it. While your at it donate a few bucks to your MUD too for all their hardwork.

Not all things in this world should be free so support the good people that work hard to bring you great things!

Jaerin

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

So how about of instead of spending your time in cracking eLicense, you spend it in developing a system that offers everything eLicense does, is better, and more secure? Not only will you not have to endure whatever problems it is you say you are having but you will also make a lot of money for yourself.

Kjata

GURU Joined: 24 Sep 2000 Posts: 1237 Location: USA

quote:

If you think im the only person that has trouble with elicense, wait a few hours, im sure youll have more posts on the matter.

Ok, I'm a little impatient, but it's been 2 hours since your original post. And it's still the only one to have complained. Oh, but not about a specific problem with elicense. Just about its use. That's peculiar. Most people have an error code or something to cite, and get help with.

Now, I don't naturally assume that just because you're complaining as soon as a new version of elicense arrives that you're only making your remarks because it inconveniences a possible attempt to steal software. I'd like to assume the best of people.

But just for the sake of completeness, I checked other posts on the board, and 1) you're the only person complaining about the new version at the time of this reply, and 2) you've never complained about it before, implying it hasn't been a problem until now; and 3) (this is so obvious it's funny) "I have in all truth started cracking my zmud because i got tired of the elicense crap".

You go on to say (regarding a past crack for old versions) "Although that is fixed in 6.40" implying you've tried it. I didn't see any mention of that in Zugg's announcement. So it was one of the first things you tried on the new version. THAT is cause enough for me to think significantly less of you. You've just offered profuse public proof of poor mental function. You've been stealing software, proclaiming to collaborate with others on the theft of software, and now complaining that it's gotten more difficult, in exactly the place most opposed to that theft. I don't usually call people names, but are you some kind of moron?

To address a few other contentions:

quote:

many people do agree. The program itself is great, but elicense detracts from it quite a bit.

Can't say I've seen evidence of it being a problem on the scale you cite. And I've looked - Google's Groups search and Web search don't provide a whole lot of legitimate questions about errors.

quote:

Elicense although has been around for a few years has cost alot of people quite a sum of money, because of lost order ids, or problems with upgrading, and people do not feel like standing around and waiting for all the crap with elicense to get fixed.

Eloquently spoken. However, I'll direct you to Zugg's frequent remarks about the availability of a complete refund should you have problems with zMUD that cannot be resolved via contact with tech support. I might also direct you to the multiple locations of links to pages on this site to help people with lost registration codes. Additionally, I'd like to point out that you're POSTING on a board dedicated to supporting the product for exactly the case that there are problems upgrading and using zMUD.

I hate to sound repetitive, but you're doing your reputation and any chance of public respect for you little good.

By the way, lest ye think less of Zugg or Zugg Software for my sake, I don't work for him, I'm not paid by him, I'm not a contracted employee, representative or spokesman for him, so don't go blaming him that I tagged you a moron for everybody else's benefit.

Have a nice day.

zMUD 6 Online Help: All the power you'll ever need.

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

I love you Darker

So beautifully put

-- Rainchild
4 Zmud regos, 2 Zmapper regos, 7 computers, 0 eLicense problems.

Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 1

The eLicense is a good idea. As most other games are requiring the client to check to a main server, with all the registrations of paying users, on whether the license for that program is legit or not.

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

If you're looking for someone else who'll complain, allow me. eLicense has been nothing but a pain in the ass for me as well. It likes to generate annoying errors at seemingly random times that aren't easily fixed using the normal unlicensing proceedure. I've been through the mess of contacting them to get support and have keys reset, except they routinely wait 3-5 weeks to contact me when I do. Sometimes it just isn't possible to predict when you'll need to unlicense your install. Drives fail, Windows corrupts things, it happens. All too often. eLicense is one of the most unfriendly pieces of software on the planet when it comes to recovering after a disaster.

Why don't more people complain? To my knowledges they do but are blown off in exactly the same manner I see happening here. They're accused of stealing the software. If having to use the crack to regain control of something you've paid to have access to is a crime, arrest me. I'm guilty too. I don't feel like being locked out of the program while I sit on my hands waiting for eLicense to decide to do something about it. I've avoided upgrading to 6.40 for this reason as well. Most of my mud friends have reported that eLicense breaks after upgrading and they can't get back in. I know for fact these are registered users like myself. I know at least 2 of them have complained, perhaps not on the forums, but they have.

Before someone accuses me of being a thief, I can back my claims if need be, but for obvious reasons it would have to be done privately with someone from Zuggsoft. So if you need proof, ask and ye shall receive.

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:46 am

Its apparent that its much easier to whine about a broken elicense than it is to proactively have any issues resolved :) Write to eLicense, THEY designed it, THEY need to know if their software is fubarred. Zugg said in a post somewhere, this is the first product with the -new- eLicense code, if you have any problems, tell eLicense :P

Why oh WHY did I have pass door on...

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

Seamer, my comments don't relate to the NEW elicense. They relate to the OLD. I haven't downloaded 6.40 yet because I've been warned off by friends of mine. I've contacted eLicense numerous times to complain since nobody else will even listen. 9 times out of 10 I get the cookie cutter repsonse email saying "We'll get back to you later after blah blah blah has reviewed your letter". They never bother.

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 114 Location: USA

Ok, lets get this really simple: Elicense = sucky. It doesnt even really make it harder to crack zmud. Anyone with a Software Engineering degree can trample all over the license features...Its just like windows, it will always be crackable, and there will always be someone to crack it. But as long as zugg uses elicense, i can guarantee there will be people who will literally look forward to cracking it. I wouldnt care about it either way, aside from the fact that myself and many of my friends have experienced the elicense problems.

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|Demone YoungBlood|
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:01 pm

eLicense isnt sucky in the way you're describing. Up till now, my problems with it was the fact the mongrel wouldnt uninstall properly, even with the tools provided.

Try writing to Zugg AND eLicense, and be ever-so-polite. Provide your details and be patient. eLicenses expire after what, 90 days? Surely one will expire and release for you to renew again by now :) Zugg and eLicense arent ogres, neither are the people here who you came to for help. Be a little nice, and a little help will come from the places you need it.

As for cracks, crackers are the reason eLicense came into town. And yeh, I've used cracked zmud too but now thanks to some nice people here I no longer have to. *pimp aura* Everything that can be used legally (encryption, locks, whatever) can be broken illegally, its not a big boast when you say that the scheme will be broken :P

Why oh WHY did I have pass door on...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:11 pm

I just had a thought, if you used the damn elicense proxy to install zmud in the first place, you have to revert back to that version of zmud (if you upgraded at all) and unlicense via the same proxy client. THEN you should be able to install new zmud without problems.
This includes if you're using a cracked copy and then try to install a new license, have to uninstall via the proxy first. (personal experience says so)

Why oh WHY did I have pass door on...

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

From the amazing number of two people that have complained here I have yet to see a specific problem mentioned. All I've seen is "problem with Order ID's and seemingly random annoying errors", which is the same thing as if you brought your car to the mechaninc and said that it just doesn't work. This is the second time that I ask in this thread: what are the specific problems you mention? What does the error say? What is all that about "problems with Order ID's"?

Don't be so surprised if people readily label you as crackers and stealers. You come here with an attitude, saying that eLicense sucks, with no proof, no specific claims, and no previous posts stating your complaint in a civil manner. Mind you, I am not blind, or a mindless zombie, I know eLicense has some problems, I have experienced some of them first hand, but I also know for a fact that it is nowhere near as bad as you describe it. At the end of the day, you have to remember that eLicense is done by people like you and me, which make errors like everybody else. This means that it will never be a completely perfect program, no program is (and no, I do not want to see any 10 line C program or whatever else you want to post to say that there are perfect programs). I stated it in my reply above, and I say it again, why don't you all try and make copy protection software that is better and more secure than eLicense. If you do, you will earn money for yourself and stop having to deal with eLicense. If you can't make something better than eLicense, then at least try to solve your problems like rational people do and start by stating what it is that the problem is in the first place.

Kjata

Site Admin Joined: 29 Sep 2000 Posts: 389 Location: USA

quote:
I've contacted eLicense numerous times to complain since nobody else will even listen. 9 times out of 10 I get the cookie cutter repsonse email saying "We'll get back to you later after blah blah blah has reviewed your letter". They never bother.

Please forward these exchanges directly to me at chiara at zuggsoft.com. That is not the kind of service we provide. If people are getting blown off, this is the first I heard of it, but you can be certain I'll follow up on it if provided with the complete details.

I'll admit, we're a small company and things happen. But even when deathly ill or recovering from surgery, the farthest behind I've ever been is a week. Any time it takes more than 5 days to get a response (at the very least a vacation message stating when we'll be back), email again. Check your mail box to be sure you aren't over quota and bouncing replies. Post a complaint to the forums. If there's something going on, one if the Gurus will know about it.

quote:
Most of my mud friends have reported that eLicense breaks after upgrading and they can't get back in. I know for fact these are registered users like myself. I know at least 2 of them have complained, perhaps not on the forums, but they have.

Yes, upgrading can cause a perfectly correctible code 17 error if you don't unlicense before hand. I spent 3 hours correcting them yesterday, and expect to spend at least that today. Several times yesterday I accessed the file only to see that the support from Elicense had beat me too it. Personally, I think that's pretty reasonable support. And since now you know in advance what is going to happen, you can pass along to all your friends that if they just unlicense before upgrading, they can avoid all these problems.

And again, if you aren't getting proper, timely support, I want to know about it. Send me the email records. It will be corrected.

Chiara
Customer Support

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:46 pm

Let me give you all an analogy:

I'd really love to leave my house unlocked. Then all of my friends could come and go at will and use all of my stuff. They could come into my house any time, night or day.

Unfortunately, we live in a sad world. If I leave my house unlocked, some idiot is eventually going to walk in and steal all of my stuff. So, to help prevent that, I install locks on the door.

Now locks are not that secure. A dedicated thief can still break a window and enter the house anyway. If I'm in a nice small town with a low crime rate, I might not have to worry about that. But if I live in a big city, I end up calling a security company to install window sensors, door sensors, and alarms.

Of course, even such alarm systems can be bypassed, which is why big companies have to have their own security guards, guns, and more. It's the reason the police regularly patrol our neighborhoods. Breakins and robbery still occur because their are still plenty of idiot thieves in our society. But the locks and alarms and police help minimize the problem.

So now I have to give keys to all of my friends. They can use their keys to enter my house. Sometimes one of these "friends" will duplicate their key and give it to someone else. Every now and then, I have to change the locks on the house and issue new keys.

Imagine doing this with over 40,000 friends when you need to change the locks.

So yes, sometimes getting a new key can be a pain. It might take a couple of days of email with eLicense to get your key changed.

But claiming that locks are a nuisance and should be removed is just plain silly. I have actual *data* that shows how many more people pay for zMUD when it has copy protection. I can tell you for an absolute *fact* that if I removed eLicense, more people would just use the new version for free and stop buying it, and I'd go out of business and never release a new version of zMUD ever again.

If you want to blame someone, blame the thieves. If we didn't have thieves, we wouldn't need locks. If people didn't steal software, we wouldn't need copy protection. Of course copy protection isn't perfect, just like locks are not perfect. But whenever a hacker comes up with a new way to break in, it's the job of elicense to respond and build a better lock...that's what I pay them for.

I get a *lot* of email...over a hundred per day. That's a lot more feedback than I get on these forums. If there were lots of people complaining about eLicense, I'd certainly know about it. Yes, there are people getting Code 17 messages or people who have lost their reg code. When they email us about this, we respond quickly and they usually respond with how happy they are to get such fast support. If there are angry and upset people out there, we certainly havn't heard from them.

The reason *paying* customers usually like eLicense, or at least understand the need for it is:

1) They paid $25 for zMUD, so why should someone else get it for free. eLicense is protecting their investment and helping to ensure that future versions of zMUD are free.

2) eLicense prevents rampant software piracy, causing more people to buy zMUD instead of using it for free, causing Zugg Software to stay in business, causing more and more new features, bug fixes, and upgrades.

I'm happy to hear that the new eLicense is causing some hackers to be upset. If it wasn't for those hackers, we wouldn't need eLicense in the first place. I pay eLicense a *lot* of money for their service...do you think I'd pay them all that money if they weren't helping to improve sales?

So, stop your whining. eLicense and copy protection are here to stay as long as there are thieves that will steal software and use it for free. Just like locks on our doors are here to stay.

And when you have a problem with eLicense, think about actually emailing us first for help. Of course the hackers are afraid to do that because they'd have to admit to stealing. But as Chiara mentioned in another thread, even when we are recovering from surgery our email response time is hardly ever more than a few days.

But you wouldn't believe the number of emails that we get from people with screwed up email, full mailboxes, etc that we cannot respond to. So, if you haven't gotten an answer in a few days, check to make sure your system is working before you start blaiming others. And having dealt with eLicense for over a year with hundreds of emails, their email response rate is as good as ours, which is way better than any other company I have ever dealt with.

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:02 pm

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention:

All of those "friends" who claim they won't buy zMUD as long as it uses the "evil" eLicense: How many of them would buy zMUD if it didn't use eLicense and you could just use zMUD for free? That silence that I hear tells me that NONE of them would buy zMUD if there was a way to use it for free. The fact that they also won't buy it as long as it uses eLicense means that eLicense isn't hurting my sales at all.

Wizard Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 1644 Location: USA

Hmmmm the only problem I had with using Elicense is when I was using a cracked version of Zmud

I Fixed that problem by Buying a legit copy of Zmud, since then No Errors from Elicense

*begins begging Zugg for forgivness*

Fatal Error!?! What do you mean Fatal Error... NO Dont format you silly thing. *sigh* Back to the Drawing board.

Newbie Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 1

[quote]
Yes, there are people getting Code 17 messages or people who have lost their reg code.

*CRY* That is me! I Think that overall You are doing a GREAT job. Keep it up.

*cringes* but please help me with my error 17!

Thanks

Adept Joined: 09 Nov 2000 Posts: 222 Location: USA

Michelle,
Read Zugg's new post (the christmas gift one)... this should take care of you... if you can't get a new license by tomorrow, e-mail to support@elicense.com and you should be taken care of quickly.

AzCowboy

quote:

Yes, there are people getting Code 17 messages or people who have lost their reg code.

*CRY* That is me! I Think that overall You are doing a GREAT job. Keep it up.

*cringes* but please help me with my error 17!

Thanks

Beginner Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 14 Location: Canada

I usually dont post on here except for the odd help with actual questions concerning the use of triggers and what not, but with recent remarks I felt i had to at least say something on this topic...

For the record Ive had zmud installed and bought and paid for for at least 4 years now, Ive had to reinstall windblows to many times in those 4 years to count and not once did I ever have a problem getting zmud up and running within 24 hours. Yes Ive lost my key a couple of times, yes I emailed the support staff and gotten my key back and yes it took less than 24hrs. Now the eliscense thingy... I just upgraded to 6.40 the other day, yes I had to re-enter my key, not it didnt choke, puke or do anything else but make me look up my reg code again from a stored email and a simple cut and paste.

To those having problems, the only time I ever hear things like what you are describing are from ppl I know that don't have a legit copy of zmud and use cracked versions of it, in other words you get what you paid for.....

and if you think Zmud is my only client your saddly mistaken, Ive tried em all, on windblows and *nix and I still come back to zmud for it's simplicity of scripting.

Zugg, it's sad that you are goin to devote more time on other projects because morons wont spend the odd $25 bucks to register a good thing, hell as far as scareware ... Umm that should be shareware.... goes zmud is a good bang for the buck. Now if only I had registered zmapper when it was still only $10 bucks Id be happy but alas Ill end up paying the $20 for it one of these days since the mud Im usually on I know pretty damn well and I really dont need the features of the mapper quite yet

As a side note, it is sad that people will circumvent registering products, see what happens when too many people abuse a good thing, the thing gets put onto a back burner.
Ive seen too many products, companies go under cause of theft, and it's sad to see Zmud following those steps.

and in case your wondering... Ive been in computing for the last 20 years

Kosh

Just some thoughts on the matter and my 2 cents worth on the topic

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:46 pm

You know, I've sat back and watched many of these eLicense threads come and go like the tides. Most people that have posted with issues have something near-specific (such as an error code, something that can be traced), then there are these.

It often makes me wonder what people really want? I run a small time software business that includes 1 other person, my wife. Unfortunately we dont have enough capita to use eLicense, or I most likely would in a heartbeat. I can completely understand where Zugg is coming from on this, there is nothing more heartwrenching than seeing that you've just released the latest copy of your work, and not but 24-48 hours later, your product is cracked. (Anyone wanna give a hooray for human morals?) So what is a developer to do? The answer is simple, you hire someone to do the job for you, so that when it's broken, it is their problem to deal with, and you can continue working on what makes you the money.

Interestingly enough, I've sat here listening to people complaining about "oh! I dont like having to get a new key" and just laughing at them when they later say they're using WindowsXP... I've had to call Microsoft 5 times already to get my cd-key unlocked from their server for a simple REINSTALL (Yeah, as a developer, quite a few of us winde up reinstalling many, many times a year)... You want to find a system with flaws, go look at that. In my not-so-humble opinion, eLicense does appear to be one of the better protection schemes out there, and I for one am happy that Zugg would want to protect OUR investments by using whatever means he requires to get the job done. Hell, if he required me to fetch a new key on EVERY EXECUTION, I wouldn't mind, it's much better to me than knowing that someone is out there, casually able to crack a program that I am proud to say I use.

So, you want a land without eLicense and other such protection schemes, go install Linux (not a bad thing mind you, just saying

), though, as it becomes more and more popular in the Desktop world, you might not have long before these schemes are ported there.

So the choice is really in your hands, buy the software, stop the piracy, lower the statistics, and let the lockdowns stop here, or continue, and welcome to Fort Knox.

Well Done Zugg, I stand by your choices in this, and will continue to.

Icechild
Coder of Arthanox

Novice Joined: 22 Nov 2000 Posts: 40 Location: USA

"To those having problems, the only time I ever hear things like what you are describing are from ppl I know that don't have a legit copy of zmud and use cracked versions of it, in other words you get what you paid for..... "

Baseless assumtion on your part. For I HAVE paid for it and have offered proof to the only parties who should be concerned about it. I'm not about to post my regcode here for all to see, the reason for which should be blatatnely obvious. Point being, it doesn't just happen to the thieves. But it seems legit complaints don't normally go to the boards. If that's where you want them, so be it. They can come here. But I recall having seen somewhere that such complaints should be sent to the proper support addresses.

Icechild: "It often makes me wonder what people really want?"

What do we want? Software that doesn't make it feel like we're being penalized when it has to be reinstalled. NONE of my other paid shareware has this problem. Some may nag a bit, but that's to be expected. eLicense goes well beyond nagging. It also has a nasty repuation for not uninstalling itself when told to. Only type of software protection I've ever had that forces me to keep renewing itself too.

"So, you want a land without eLicense and other such protection schemes"

While this would be nice... it's not practical. I'll settle for a land with no eLicense. Use something else that's less of a hassle for paying customers. I'm sure SOMETHING out there must do the job as effectively and not be such a PITA.

As for the XP comment.... um. Yeah. Never had that problem myself. Reinstalls have never prompted me to have to call Microsoft to get the key to be accepted. And I've done a few so far. Usually because eLicense wouldn't vacate itself when asked....