Zugg Software :: View topic - I can read documentation with the best of them too

Novice Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 49 Location: USA

You quoted:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am getting a "Code 23" error
This problem occurred in older versions of AC Explorer. You need to first contact eLicense at support@elicense.com and ask them to send you their diagnostic program to fix a code 23 error. Then, run the program they sent you to clear the error. Then upgrade to the latest version of AC Explorer to prevent this from happening again.
----

I read that. I looked through the support help. Read the eLicense FAQ. Scan'd thru the FORUMs. Even had personal mail from Zugg him/herself. Why would I be looking for a fix to AC Explorer when I don't even know what that is and my problem is with ZMud 6.16?
"Then upgrade to the latest version of AC Explorer to prevent this from happening again." What? Get the BETA version and deal with a whole lot of bugs again? Hah!
------

Quoting again -
"why can't people be bothered to read documentation. If you did, you would have noticed right away that beta versions are, by definition, buggy and may be unstable. If you do not want that risk, don't use it."

It was too late.. I bought the BETA version unsuspecting. As far as I'm concerned, I was stuck with it because I didn't BUY the 6.16 version instead. I'm just making the case that BETA versions should not be available for purchase by the unsuspecting public. Zuggsoft should FORCE them to buy the public version first, so they'd have something to fall back on.

You people are obviously experienced with Zuggsoft and just like in the MUD games, you've been HEROs or Avatars or Immortals for so damn long, you don't even remember what it's like to be a newbie. I can read documentation, I can follow instructions, but the INSTRUCTIONS/FIX has to be clear and relate to the problem I'm dealing with. If AC Explorer is another name for ZMud 6.16, then tell me it is...better yet, if the Code 23 fix applies to all Zugg software, then I should be told about that.

QuartetmanIA

GURU Joined: 24 Sep 2000 Posts: 1237 Location: USA

AC Explorer is a totally separate product. It's not for muds. Don't buy it hoping to fix your zMUD issue.

AC Explorer does use the same license system zMUD does though, so bugs people have found in that apply to zMUD and the fixes they've found for them will be helpful to read about.

Just a point of fact, the download page for zMUD contains this text with the link to download 6.26a BETA: "The latest BETA version of zMUD. BETA versions usually contain bugs, so be sure to make a backup of your existing zMUD files before installing."

Never say you weren't warned

. I'd be curious to know what kinds of bugs you were getting with 6.26a that make it un-usable - maybe it's something easy to sort out, given a little help.

Anyway, the licensing issue wih 6.16 can be fixed, but since it appears we're not being very helpful, given repeated tries, try emailing support@elicense.com and explain the situation to them. Keep in mind, they don't work closely enough with Zuggsoft that they know the difference between 6.16 and 6.26a. They only know about the licensing software, so tell them about the error you're getting with 6.16 and keep things simple. I'm pretty sure they can help.

zMUD 6 Online Help: All the power you'll ever need.

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

Well, unlike Darker, I tend to loose my cool a little bit easier. So, here goes the official disclaimer that seems to pop up here in the forums more often now: I do not work for Zugg Software, nor do I represent them. This are just my opinions which do not reflect those of Zugg Software. If you like them, fine. If not, that's good too.

With that said, let's go through some points. No one ever said that once you buy one version, you can't use that license on a previous version. Assumptions are what drives most of the arguments I have ever heard in my life, and this does not seem to be an exception. The only time when you can't use a newer license with previous versions, happened with the switch from Zugg's propietary license scheme to using eLicense. However, both 6.16 and the latest beta use eLicense so this shouldn't be a problem.

Since you don't buy a version, you buy zMUD, you can't force people to buy the latest public release, because it is zMUD as well. However, people are discouraged (an the message appears in various places) of using beta versions, but you can currently use a license for zMUD in any version that uses eLicense (and right now the only two versions that are available for download which use it are 6.16 and 6.26a)

Next, you were told that the Code 23 fix that mentioned AC Explorer applied to zMUD anyway. However, you still posted this after that anyway. Why? I'm not really sure, but hey, it happens. So, you are hereby told again, just like Darker explained, zMUD is a separate program from AC Explorer, but uses the same licensing scheme, and thus, is subject to the same license errors.

You're right, the FAQ should probably say that it applies to zMUD too, but since this problem (if memory serves me correctly) has only happened once or twice before with zMUD users, the FAQ was not writting this way. Even more, when the FAQ was written, no user of zMUD had reported still a Code 23 error. However, there was a post not too long ago about Code 23 in the General zMUD forum, and it should still be around here somewhere.

Finally, I'd like to talk about attitue. Beleive me that we are all here with the best intentions to help, and we receive a lot fo questions from zMUD newbies. However, when a person begins jumping to conclusions, saying that they have been ripped off, or otherwise misled, it does not tend to bring the best response. Do you think a bank teller would try to help you better if you come about ranting about how some money disappeared from your balance, and that the bank should do somethign right away because this is injust and you deserve to be refunded right away, or would it be better, perhaps, if you go to the teller and explain your problem, calmly, stating what happened, remembering that the people at the bank are human and do make errors from time to time? I think the latter is better. In the same way, if you come asking about a problem with unfounded assumptions, the response will not be the same. Even worse is when an answer is given, but the person still won't see it, because he/she is convinced that they are not being treated correctly and everything they are told is wrong.

Again, this are just my opinions and you may or may not like them. Do keep in mind, that I am still moderator, and can/will lock (delete if needed too) threads that get out of hand. I believe you have received, at least for the second time now, an answer to your problem.

Kjata

Novice Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 49 Location: USA

Alright, I'll drop the topic. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. But I want you to know that I've been having problems with this Code 23 problem for weeks and haven't mentioned the problem in this forum until the past few days. There was nothing intuiative about the Code 23 error that told me it was a eLicense program issuing the error. From my perspective, I was starting 6.16 and "it" was the issuing the message, not eLicense.

My discussion with Zugg involved my frustration with 6.25a beta. He/she contacted me in response to a Support request email I sent. We didn't go into my crash problems, as I just wanted to know what to do to get around it. Zugg said basically, beta versions are unstable and if I can't stand the heat, use the public 6.16 version instead. Zugg said to download 6.16 in another folder and I'd be alright. We'll I started getting Code 23 errors (not knowing what a Code 23 was) and was getting no (read: nada) help from Support to fix it. Who wouldn't think they were being ripped off for 25 bucks? Even the Code 23 message makes it look like they wanted another 25 bucks for the 6.16 version. (The FAQ I read said that eLicense isn't valid on older versions of Zmud. I'm using 6.26a and 6.16 is older.) That's why I came to this forum to get help. And all I got was people telling me not to use beta--that it has bugs in it and to re-read my eLicense agreement. Not much help if you ask me. Darker came closest to understanding my problem and showing a willingness to help me out. Not everyone using Zmud products is a programming genious, nor should they expected to be.

p.s.-

I guess, buying the beta instead of the public version was a mistake, and it was coincidental that downloading 6.16 and having a Licensing problem made it appear I was stuck with a useless beta version. I was getting no help from Zugg -- the guy/gal who took my 25 bucks.

BTW, while this belongs in the Beta Forum, Darker wanted to know what the problem was with my 6.26a beta:

I'm a simple user of Zmud.. nothing special, I don't use the database, I create a few triggers and never use the AutoMap -- because it doesn't work if I want to use it to automatically move from one area to another. The problem I'm experiencing is: when I move East or West or whereever for more than 5-6 rooms, Beta crashes and it doesn't matter which MUD game I'm in at the time. It happens everywhere and sometimes when I'm just standing there reading a Clan Bulletin board.

I'm using WindowsXP 2000 - Gateway.

Peace!

QuartetmanIA

Site Admin Joined: 29 Sep 2000 Posts: 389 Location: USA

I just want to add some information here.

Any time you get an error on any Zuggsoft product, include the specific error code and message in your post or support email. This will help us give the best support as quickly as possible.

Any time you don't get a clear response from the forums, email us for support. We're small, so it may take several days for an answer, but *every* email that comes to us does get answered. Again, include as much information in your initial request as possible. Especially version number and error codes.

And remember, all our income comes from new users. If our old users aren't happy, they aren't going to tell their friends about this great product they should buy.

Chiara
An actual Zugg Software Representative.

Newbie Joined: 22 Feb 2002 Posts: 5 Location: USA

I wish I'd seen this thread before I posted similar responses to you elsewhere, QuartetmanIA.

Write to Elicense as suggested in the fix for AC Explorer, and request the diagnostic program. If necessary, e-mail me at MaskedHorror@iname.com and I will e-mail you the copy I used to fix the same problem you are having.

This Code 23 error seems to be extremely rare in ZMUD, so you and I are part of a very select group consisting of its victims ;) So, you didn't get much help with it because it's extremely unusual.

As they say above, the error comes from Elicense, which is a vital part of both AC Explorer and ZMUD, and not from those two Zuggsoft programs themselves. Therefore, what fixes Code 23 on one should fix it on the other- if this fix works for you, I recommend you write to Zuggsoft's tech support people and let them know that it seems to work fine for ZMUD too, so they can update the ZMUD FAQ.

And now this:

YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR THE ZMUD PROGRAM ITSELF, YOU PAID FOR A LICENSE TO USE ZMUD. So, your license is good for all recent versions of ZMUD, from the beta back to version 5.53 and if you lose your copy of the program, you have the right to download another copy and use your license to run it. You can burn a CD-R with ever version of ZMUD from 5.53 to the latest beta, and as long as you are only using your license on one computer, you are perfectly within your rights. This allows you to download an improved version of the beta that doesn't crash later on if that works better for you, or to use version 5.53 if it is stable and works for you.

And on that subject, a "beta version" is an untested release of the program with new features and fixes for old problems that may or may not improve stability of the program. When you are using beta software, you are in effect acting as a guinea pig as the software programmers test new ideas for the program out on you, in the hopes that with your cooperation and careful observation and detailed bug reports you can help the programmers solve problems before the improvements are released to a less adventurous public. Obviously, this isn't for everyone, but if you choose to participate in the beta program you can help Zuggsoft's programmers out a lot with detailed descriptions of what kind of computer you are using, what software might have been running with the beta program that might have helped it crash, and any other useful info.

-Tiamat

Novice Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 49 Location: USA

Tiamat

Thank you for taking time to pull all the information I've been getting into a concise explanation of how eLicense and Zuggsoft programs work together. I did contact eLicense support and they downloaded the eLicence "fix" to me.

I unzip'd the file and executed the program 3 times per their instructions. Because they didn't know what system I was using (WindowsXP 2000 Home version), they wanted me to sent the data file it created. They said just running their program can fix the Code 23 problem. Unfortunately, it didn't fix the problem and I'm still getting the Code 23. Hopefully, eLicense will have some idea what is causing the problem after reviewing the diagnostic dump I sent them.

Why the eLicense works for my worthless 6.26a beta and not for 6.16, I don't know. I wonder if I should unlicense the 6.26a beta, delete both zMUD 6.16 and 6.26a folders and start over by downloading 6.16 again would solve the problem. But the thought of doing an unlicense of my zMud and re-licensing it scares the hell out of me as I'm not comfortable I really understand the process of re-licensing zMud. And to tell you the truth, I'm not looking forward to when this 90 day license period is up and I'm suppose to re-establish my zMud license again. Getting the license the first time was easy; all I had to do is click the "BUY" button. I'm anticipating Code 23 errors.

QuartetmanIA

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

Re-licensing shouldn't be hard, if you were not experiencing any of these problems. Normally, you would right-click on the zMUD exe, go to eLicense control and select Unlicense. Then you can go about deleting and doing whatever you want. When you install zMUD again and run it, it will tell you that it is unregistered and you have a 30 day trial period. You then click on the License button (I believe it is called that) and you will see a box to put your license number there. You enter it and click on Get License and you should be running zMUD with no problems from eLicense for 90 days.

Now, to explain the 90 days. When the 90 days of a particular license is over, it will automatically expire. This is done so people who forget to unlicense before formatting the hard drive, or somehow loose the license, and they have used up all three of their licenses already, can get back that license 90 days after it was licensed. However, if you are not a victim of any of these problems, you still have to deal with the 90 day auto-expire, but it is also very easy. What happens is that when the 90 days are over and you try to open zMUD, it will tell you that your license has expired and present you with the same box where you originally entered your license number but with the license number already filled out. You just need to click on Get License and you are set for 90 more days.

Now, you said that the program the eLicense people sent didn't fix the Code 23 error. To try to fix it, however, you are going to have to keep working with them and doing what they ask you. Unlicensing, deleting zMUD and reinstalling will most likely not help you out because the license information is not kept by zMUD in the zMUD folder or anywhere else zMUD knows about. It is kept by eLicense somewhere in your computer, and within that is that the Code 23 error lies. So, unfortunately, among a very small minority. It is very rare that zMUD users get the Code 23 error, but it is rarer still that the program the eLicense people send doesn't fix it.
I hope that answers your questions and I wish you the best of luck with solving this.

Kjata

Novice Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 49 Location: USA

Code '23' problem is fixed for my Zmud 6.16!

Even though I ran the fix in the prescribe manner and attempted to start 6.16 it failed. After shutting off my computer and returning later to try it again, my 6.16 zMud started up.

Apparently the Code 23 fix required a re-boot.

Thanks

QuartetmanIA