Zugg Software :: View topic

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

every 3-4 months I reload cmud, and try again.

So on a brand new windows 7 machine, with never a copy of cmud loaded.. I load cmud 3.12

Setup all my characters about 15, all on the same mudd
Manually create all my triggers, aliases, speedwalks and package files, none are converted from zmud. Only thing converted from Zmud was my map.

So long as I play ONE character at a time, cmud works wonderfully.
after about a week, I decided I wanted to get 2 characters on, and within 30 seconds, CMUD goes belly up.

I Opened the 2nd session, and the windows went all crazy. I couldn't tab between them. I finally got to where I could close down the new session, and cmud crashes. Reopened cmud, and the 2nd session I tried to open will only come up with a black screen, no connection, or anything. it's totally screwed.

I've tried many things since the inception of cmud, even sent my package files to other people. None ever came back with any answer to get this to work. I have never been able to double play with cmud. until I can, it's been a waste, and I go back to zmud. There will come a time when I probably won't be able to get zmud to work any more, guess I'll just stop mudding then. I am open to suggestions. I really WANT this to work...

Also found this bug single playing,
After creating a new session, and hitting the map, Cmud will create a blank map, If you hit file open, to open a different map, Cmud will crash.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:52 pm

Without seeing more details about your sessions, or without some simpler way to reproduce this, there isn't much I can do to help. I regularly "multiplay" (that is, I have multiple sessions using telnet/SSH for sysadmin purposes rather than MUD playing specifically, but that doesn't matter).

If this is something you can easily reproduce within 30 seconds, then you shouldn't have much trouble giving us some sample scripts and instructions for causing a problem with multiple sessions. My guess is there is either a problem with the scripts you are creating, or there is a problem with the method you are using for creating and connecting to your multiple sessions.

So try doing this in a step-by-step manner to determine the cause. For example, if you don't create any packages or scripts at all, but just create two sessions for your MUD characters, can you open both sessions without a problem? Try taking this more slowly to pindown the source of the problem.

Otherwise, with nebulous posts like this which are impossible to reproduce nobody can do anything to help you and CMUD will continue to have the same problems for you.

As far as your crash when opening a map, I cannot reproduce that at all either. My guess is the map file you are trying to open has a problem and you'd need to send me the exact map file that you are trying to open.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

search on my username... you'll find posts going back over 2 years with details.
there is nothing in my triggers/aliasses that is even remotely complex, however, walking though setting up all my triggers, aliases and different packages would take a LOT of time. I'll go throug the higl-level overview, if you want the package files. let me know.

I really suspect the problem has something to do with assigning one package to multiple sessions.
I setup
1 common package, this is a package that has common settings for all settings.
1 chat package -- for logging chit-chat stuff to a seperate window.. found marking this package as external seems to help stability
1 Class specific package, like Thief or Sorcerer, I created one package for each, and assing the package to the session.
1 standard package that matchces the sesion name, that's created by default... I use this package for things I might assign to only this session.

most all sessions get the chat and common packages, the class specific session is usually different between the 2 sessions I try to run.

That's it...
the first time trying to start a 2nd session, I had to delete the sessionname.pkg file and re-create. ever time I tried to open it, I'd get nothing but black screen.

oh, and tbe mapper crashing, only seems to happen if you're trying to load a map file that's in a different directory than the default.

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:54 pm

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

yeah, I run in the neighborhod of 40 aliases, and about 10 triggers.. would take a while to type all this into the forum.
it would take a while to go though typing all that..
Is there a good reason why these packates would run fine when running in with a single session, but crash constantly when 2 sessions are open ?
I offered up the files, are you interested in seeing them, or are you more interested in a pissing contest ?
cause I can hit the wall from here. and I'm sure my dad can beat up your dad.
yes, the last 2 are meant to be a joke, but for some reason, I this seems to be way more confrontentational than it should be when asking for help.
Just so you know, the last 2 guru's that I sent my files to either never replied, or didn't find antthing wrong.
I'm running win7 32 bit.

As far as looking at previous posts... I've had the EXACT SAME problem since ver 1.3ish... (from memory),\. I loaded the beta to try to KEEP this issue from happening.... again... if you're not interested in looking at the 50ish crash dumps I'v submitted, (search on my email address) and the offer to send all my package files, then I guess I'm to assume I'm clueless, and I should stop wasting your time.

Magician Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 364 Location: USA

Take it easy on Zugg. Being able to reproduce the issue from scratch is important. He isn't trying to fix the issue just for you, but for anyone that might run into it. To do that he really needs step by step instructions.

The easy work-around is to just open up two instances of cmud. You could also try exporting everything to xml, deleting the sessions, the package files, the layouts, and reimporting into fresh settings.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:09 pm

40 aliases and 10 triggers is a simple session, and fortunately for you me and everyone else you can COPY your settings, there is the XML tab, click on it and CTRL+A, CTRL+C (select all & copy) and post it on the forums in some code tags. Then maybe we can eliminate one possible cause for your problems.

I understand you're frustrated, Cmud isn't working like you think it is, and nobody seems to be able to help you but, Zugg IS interested in making Cmud as stable and useful to as many people as he can. Keep in mind Cmud is about 1.5 MILLION lines of code, and the crash reports just help narrow down the problem to maybe 1000 lines of code spread across several functions, files and who knows what else, only one or two of which could cause the problem. Having a detailed, and reproduce-able procedure lets Zugg compare what happens with the code when Cmud works and doesn't work, turning a rather large haystack into a much smaller one.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

I'll be happy to post the files, but zugg hasn't asked for them.
I really dont think he wants them, or wants to mess with them.

I can't do anything til friday anyway, I'm out of town right now, and zmud is on this laptop, it stills works :) I've been a zugg customer since 1998, and have always ben happy wiht his stuff.

Wizard Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 2320

Zugg has asked for several things from you in the past, which you have not provided. He does want to help solve your problem, but you need to provide what is needed.

Did you actually try the procedure Zugg gave above to do multiple sessions? Did it work? You complain above that Zugg isn't looking at your crash dumps, but a long time ago Zugg asked you to post the crash dump here on the the forum. You did not do that.

Zugg and others have said, in this thread and previous threads, that your problem is probably in your scripts. 40 aliases and 10 triggers is a simple package. If there is a problem in the scripts, or if the scripts cause Cmud to exhibit an unkown bug, it should be easy to track it down. Show us the xml for your packages and we can take a look. Include instructions for how you make your multiple sessions.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

wow... maybe next time, you should READ THE THREADS before you comment Rahab.

I didn't post the crash-dump in the forum BECASUE I WAS EMAILING them to him, we had 10 emails that went back and forth, and if you READ that thread, you would see that.

I offered to send the package files to zugg, he never asked for them... HE STILL HASN'T ASKED FOR ANYTHING. Others have offered help here, but Zzug has not asked for a thing.

you also FAILED to read that I would be posting the XML Friday.

You also FAILED to realize that since I am out of town, I can't try the procedure posted, even tho THAT"S what I do now... I mean, how else would you do it ?

I'd pretty much call the entire post by RAHAB == EPIC FAIL!
I mean wow....

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:45 pm

ecourt: if you don't calm down, you are going to get banned from this forum. Please remember that everybody posting here is a volunteer and is just trying to help. Please treat everybody here with respect if you expect to get any help.

And that goes for everybody!

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

I dont want to get banned, I'm looking for a solution.
and I am rather calm.

rahab is out of line... can you honestly read his post, and think that he read this thred ?
what did he say that was helpful that wasn't already said ?

credit where credit is due, and the reverse. simple as that.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

crash dump from opening the map...

system language : English
system up time : 9 days 4 hours
program up time : 6 hours 50 minutes
processors : 3x AMD Phenom(tm) II X3 720 Processor
physical memory : 1683/3327 MB (free/total)
free disk space : (C:) 29.57 GB (D:) 697.01 GB
display mode : 1680x1050, 32 bit
process id : $151c
allocated memory : 119.14 MB
executable : cMUD.exe
exec. date/time : 2009-10-30 16:42
version : 3.12.0.0
compiled with : BCB 2006/07
madExcept version : 3.0h
contact name : Ecourt
contact email : *****
callstack crc : $eda69983, $9cccee2e, $9cccee2e
exception number : 1
exception class : EAccessViolation
exception message : Access violation at address 00DB98A8 in module 'cMUD.exe'. Read of address 0000017C.

Main ($ae4):
00db98a8 +050 cMUD.exe PkgDM 7417 +3 TPkg.GetDBStr
00d71c96 +016 cMUD.exe PrefDat 11427 +1 ModuleRec.GetUniqueID
00d79cd2 +036 cMUD.exe PrefDat 13338 +5 LocationRec.SetMapDB
00d22c9d +095 cMUD.exe MapLoc3 665 +13 TMapLoc.SetMapDB
00cdc705 +249 cMUD.exe MAIN 23525 +28 TMUDForm.InitMapLoc
00cf212f +26b cMUD.exe MapNew3 1190 +32 TNewMapF.LoadMaster
00cf557a +086 cMUD.exe MapNew3 2296 +9 TNewMapF.ActionOpenExecute
0047b983 +00f cMUD.exe Classes TBasicAction.Execute
004cbef9 +031 cMUD.exe ActnList TContainedAction.Execute
004ccbc0 +050 cMUD.exe ActnList TCustomAction.Execute
0047b84f +013 cMUD.exe Classes TBasicActionLink.Execute
006ae83a +052 cMUD.exe dxBar 37238 +5 TdxBarItem.DoClick
006ae7b7 +03b cMUD.exe dxBar 37226 +4 TdxBarItem.DirectClick
006b2a48 +154 cMUD.exe dxBar 39493 +32 TdxBarItemControl.ControlUnclick
006b5b26 +056 cMUD.exe dxBar 41411 +6 TdxBarButtonControl.ControlUnclick
0069b66a +0fe cMUD.exe dxBar 27162 +24 TCustomdxBarControl.WMLButtonUp
004bb267 +2bb cMUD.exe Controls TControl.WndProc
004bf26b +4fb cMUD.exe Controls TWinControl.WndProc
006a4a56 +002 cMUD.exe dxBar 32031 +0 TdxBarControl.IsInternal
006a8a62 +012 cMUD.exe dxBar 34037 +1 TdxBarSubMenuControl.IsInternal
0069da6b +007 cMUD.exe dxBar 28313 +1 TCustomdxBarControl.GetEquivalentParentBar
0069ccce +01a cMUD.exe dxBar 27853 +6 TCustomdxBarControl.CanProcessMouseMessage
004be994 +02c cMUD.exe Controls TWinControl.MainWndProc
0047c644 +014 cMUD.exe Classes StdWndProc
75c03573 +00a USER32.dll DispatchMessageA
004a9940 +0fc cMUD.exe Forms TApplication.ProcessMessage
004a997a +00a cMUD.exe Forms TApplication.HandleMessage
004a9c6f +0b3 cMUD.exe Forms TApplication.Run
00e07668 +088 cMUD.exe CMUD 352 +20 initialization
773d1172 +010 kernel32.dll BaseThreadInitThunk

error details:
opening the map, which is in a different directory

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:17 pm

Looks like the other map file is corrupted in some way, or else the location objects in your session are corrupted. CMUD has loaded your other map, but is then trying to assign the tracking location for it to your MUD window. And it looks like something is wrong with the location object assigned to your session window that CMUD is trying to connect with the map you just opened.

Try opening the map from a blank session. Run CMUD, close the Session window. Click the Map button to open the map. Select File/Open and then try to open the map in the other directory. Does it still give the error?

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

Since I'm running multiple characters from the same mudd, There is no reason for each character to have a seperate map file. If I discover a room on one character, I want it to show up if I log in with another character, whithout having to add it to a different map.

All my characters for this mudd use this same map file. and here's the odd thing about this crash, it only seems to happen the VERY first time you open the map on a new session. After the map is opened once, the next time you open it, it seems to be fine.

When I loaded cmud up, created new sessions, and started loading stuff up. The first time I opened the map, it converted... Then, as I loaded that map on other sessions it crashed on almost every character the first time I opened it.

Is this a problem with the map itself, or the way I'm trying to use it ?

I did open the untitled session, and open the map. it worked fine, no error.... but it works about 3/4 the time with no error, I can't consistantly reproduce this one, but I can reproduce it.

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:39 pm

To support multiple characters sharing the same map, you should have the Map Object stored in the shared package that each session loads. The easiest way to do this is to do this:

1) Open just one session that already has a shared package being loaded with it
2) Click the map button and use File/Load in the mapper window to load the map
3) Go into the Settings Editor and you should see the Map Object within your main session window
4) Drag the Map Object from the main session window and drop it onto your shared package tab. Make sure it is stored in a Module that has Global access

Now, when you open your second session you should be able to create a location object using #LOC and start tracking multiple characters on the same map. Each session window needs it's own #LOC object, even if all characters are in the same location. Don't try to put the location object into the shared package.

Try this with just two sessions to get it working and test it. Then you can try adding additional sessions.

The main point is to be sure the Map Database Object is in the shared package, and not in each individual session. Otherwise you end up with each session trying to load and access the same map database, which will cause sharing violations and take up lots of memory. You just want a single copy of the map database loaded in the shared package, then each session has it's own location pointer onto the shared map.

Note that this is completely different than how the mapper used to work in old versions. The multiple location object code and shared map database has really only been debugged in the last couple of versions this past fall. And the procedure (dragging the Map Object from the session window into the shared package) is still a bit cumbersome and intended for advanced users.

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:51 pm

Oh, and this is minor, but you don't need to be opening a map in a different directory. CMUD can store all of the characters from a single MUD, along with the map, in a single directory. The directory structure for what you might want to do looks like this:

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

humm.. somehow I just never considered adding a map to a shared package... I'll give it a shot, and see if it stops crashing,

When I checked out the default cmud directory structure, I just figured I'd stick with something that made sense... I'll probably reorginize at some point. I was going to ask for a easily accessible directory up button on the browsing window for an enhancment too.

Rahab, sorry I went off on you. too much work not enough mudding lately...

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:34 am

Double-click the ".." folder image to go up to the parent directory (if you are talking about folders in the Session view). If you are talking about the Browse button in the Edit Session package files tab, that just displays the Windows file open dialog, and we are all stuck with whatever Microsoft coded for that screen.

If you pin down your original problem with opening a second session to the map, let us know. As I mentioned in our email, you might want to try using your sessions without any map to see if the crash is related to your scripts or to the map.

Sharing maps is a very new and somewhat tricky issue. No previous versions of CMUD supported multiple sessions sharing a map. In zMUD, each session opened it's own map file, and it was also very cumbersome. It's only very recently that the multiple location system was created to track multiple characters on a single map. While moving the map object to a shared package isn't the best solution from a user interface point of view, it makes sense to advanced users who understand what shared packages are used for. Somehow I need to come up with a way to handle this more easily for less-advanced players. But I'll somehow need to prompt the user when they open a second session whether or not they want to share the map, then somehow automatically create a shared package to store the map object and add that package to each session. Doing that kind of user interface is not going to happen for the public release though.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

I'm having trouble trying to add the map to a shared package...
I hit add, map isn't there.

I open the package editor, and try to copy the map to a shared session, and it has a circle with a X through it.

I also just crashed cmud. I logged one session off, and started a new session with a different character. Soon as I logged the first session off, cmud crashed.

Another strange thing, and maybe this is something I'm doing...
I open session one, it connects, and I'm logged in.
hit triggers, it shows the proper packages assigned to my session
hit session, open session two.
hit triggers, and it's showing all the packages for session one and session two, assigned to both sessions.
session one was a sorcerer, session two was a assassin...
I can type an alias setup for session one, that casts a spell, and it works in session 2.

I feel that my chat window, that is setup as external is somehow tying all the packages into both sessions

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:37 am

I just tested accessing different muds from cmud. I opened just one session and when I quit that session and clicked on the Sessions button and chose another session the following things happened:
The previous session window was used to open the new session rather than it being replaced so that the old session window was used as the main window and the new session was added as a tab.
#MXP (and other dynamically created) windows failed to open as declared, but opened as tabs. Since new settings were added (with the same window name) I suspect that the settings were being searched in the wrong package (the previous session package).
There was a long interval before the new session opened. In fact, the window containers only showed in outline and empty. It took so long I went to the Windows Task Manager to cancel the task but while doing so, the session finally opened.
NOTE: When quitting the first session I clicked on WORK OFFLINE on the quit dialog box. This should had given me a blank sesion with the Sessions dialog box opened, but it didn't. I just gave me what appeared to be a blank session, but it had the name of the session that was just quit. This forced me to open the Sessions dialog box manually. Granted, I could have deleted the old window and gotten a blank session, but if that is what I must do then it should be a documented procedure. It is my belief that closing the only active session should bring cmud back to a pristine (blank session) state automatically. This would certainly avoid my described experience whether it stems from a bug or from something I did wrong.

GURU Joined: 23 Dec 2000 Posts: 4834 Location: USA

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

Is there a way to force a crashdump ?

I have cmud totally locked up, and the screen just flashes.

I turned on my computer this monrning.
opend cmud
opened session by double-clicking on the first session
logged in the character
hit the session button again
selected another character
logged it in.
typed 1 command: who (which has no asliases or triggers on it)
the command line bar now just flashes, I can't type, swap tabs

tried turning trigger parsing off, no luck
also noticed the clock is stuck as well

GURU Joined: 23 Dec 2000 Posts: 4834 Location: USA

use the SHIFT trick to reset your layout.

Apprentice Joined: 29 Dec 2000 Posts: 146 Location: USA

I left cmud up, in it's stuck position (it's still up now), I was wondering about maybe forcing a dump.
I can play either of the sessions I opened solo, and never have a problem... I had tried the shift trick before, didn't really seem to make any difference (I don't customize the sessions)