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Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

I did mention it and Zugg confirmed it was a problem. About a year or more ago, and since then it hasn't been touched.

Edit Vijilante: This was split off from another topic and I really can't be bothered to go find where that topic got to and edit in the exact stuff that confused in the split. In any case he is talking about a problem with the spellchecker.

Wizard Joined: 11 Jul 2002 Posts: 1265 Location: USA

If you type `"hello!" then it will be sent.

#alias wsp {whisper %-1}

Then type
wsp Jackson, ~"Hi there buddy!"

Works. And I think it has been about a year since the ` was changed to make you able to send whatever you want without turning off parsing for that one line.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

Ok, so leaving aside the necessity of reaching over and hitting ` before saying anything, or the fact that Typing wsp Jackson, ~"hi!" is actually more keystrokes than actually typing w jackson~="Hi!", thereby takign the concept of an alias - that it's shorter than sending the full string - and inverting it, What happens if my alias is

#alias al {whisper al~=%params}

Now I can type

al :looks around and says "Nice place!" with a tap of his nose

And.... well it'll send

Cuprohastes looks around and says Nice place! with a tap of his nose

Now, given that CMud by default can't handle " pairs and can't parse URLs like evey other MUCK client, and can't automatically except having a # in the middle of a string of text that's prefaced by a tell or say or whisper command... why exactly is it that it's "Ready for public use"? I mean this is way beta stuff here. The only thing CMud does which sets it apart is it's currenly very buggy windows docking, which disables a ton of functionality from the mouse driver or keyboard, and is prone to crashing so badly that I can't send an error.

Enchanter Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 698

I had it working with #ONINPUT and #NOINPUT...

I'll get it figured out.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

Nice. But when I copied and pasted it, it gave an error and complained there was no matching brace.
Now how in the hell is anyone supposed to work out that to get an alias that in any other client would entail you making one called "al" that sends "whisp al=*" you have to type all that lot out - and hten have it fail to parse saying there's a brace missing?
You don't feel that perhaps there's a slight problem with the parsing then if you have to code elaborate and increasingly baroque work arounds?
It was bad enough that From ZMud to CMud, the command was broken to force everyone to use %params until Zugg put "auto append" in - which is turned OFF by default?

Enchanter Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 698

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

Fine. you never used anything else and you feel writing lengthy that doesn't do what's needed is fine.
I suggest you try some other MMUCK clients to see what the fuss is about. because having to crank something like that out is not acceptable for me and it's probably not acceptable for the users who want to go and play on a MUCK without having to learnt o write scripting code.
Now the thing is, I liked ZMud and I like CMud and I don't have naything agaisnt Zugg either, but having my poses eaten and having to constantly kludge around the fact that some of the most basic commands and functions that should be in a muck client simply aren't there and apparently are so low ont eh list that they might as well be marked "Don't care"?
That irks me.
Especially the fourth time I get a Bad Command warning for accidentally ending line with "

Enchanter Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 698

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that what you thought should work was wrong. There WAS a brace missing and it was all my fault -> proof that I'm not so great myself.

The point I was trying to make was that Zugg's clients are extremely powerful and there isn't a whole lot that users aren't able to do when it comes to writing powerful scripts... one way or another.

I sort of wasn't totally truthful either. I used CRT when it was still shareware and I had just started mudding. CRT was just a basic telnet client - no scripting whatsoever. I then used GMUD for awhile before I found zMUD. There really wasn't any comparison even back then before zMUD had a mapper or database or even multiple windows.

If there is something you're trying to get done and you're hitting a wall, just post the problem here and most likely someone will come up with a solution. Just do it before you get frustrated and angry.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

OK. The problem is: I can't do basic stuff because CMud, up to version 2.18 is still running with buggy parsing, and every time I've mentioned it I've been ignored and brushed off.
When I run the spell check, it fails or CMud crashes.
When it does it locks the Settings so that any changes I make don't get saved... but it doesn't tell me
When I re-order the docked windows, sometimes the command bar crashes
I can't customise the command bar without generating a fatal error
CMud sometimes locks up so badly I have to hard re-set the computer
An alias that works perfectly in one world consistently sends %params instead of the text in another world
None of the spell check options do anything useful
I have to download the SWClickables module to be able to click links
When I do it opens the web browser but it does something that causes no other programs to be able to send URLs
Sometimes copying from another program results in apparently random lines of MUCK chatter being put into clipboard
I can't save any of the layouts - it kills the session on startup
After several hours, Cmud locks up and dies, needing a Process kill to remove.

You know. Stuff like that. There's more but off hand I can't recall the full list of woes. I send bug reports in. None of it gets fixed. Not the trivial stuff not the big stuff. But hey! Soon there will be another useless frob - and all the stuff that hasn't been fixed - like CMud disabling the buttons on my Logitech mouse - will go on as normal.

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

Well that wasn't worth reading. If you think that somehow you are doing something clever by nitpicking the grammar and punctuation of a post instead of being constructive, all I can say is you sir, are a troll.

Wizard Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 1113 Location: USA

I agree with Vijilante. You need to provide specific examples of things that don't work and give step-by-step instructions on how to reproduce them reliably before there's a chance of them being fixed. It may seem to you that the bugs you report don't get fixed, but many bugs do get fixed with each release, so progress is always being made. Using insults and sarcasm will certainly not garner the positive attention you're seeking.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

I've sent in numerous bug reports, I've at length explained problems. Absolutely nothing has happened, and the best you guys are able to do is write some buggy scripts that completely fail to address the problem I stated - demonstrating that you don't bother to read the post - and then whine about grammar.
Thanks to everyone who made an effort to help but apparently from the comments above, the leading opinion is "Why should CMud be usable by most people? Let's make everything obfuscated and overly complex, that'll keep the dirty users away from our nice elitist MUCK client!".

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:58 pm

About Vijilante's asking for clarification of your post - it was actually a very difficult comment to understand. You say "when it does it stops my settings from being saved", but the last thing you talked about was a crash. When CMUD crashes, you normally close the program, but your comment sounds like you didn't - thus the confusion. More detail would definitely help.

In much the same vein, the main frustration with your post was, as I explained in another thread, that it's helpful if you post each separate problem in a separate thread and provide as much detail as possible. Ten or so sentences, each on a separate problem, don't help us confirm your problems or help you find workarounds. If you want us to help you, you need to explain things in detail - if you've made other, more detailed posts about these problems, please link them. Sometimes threads get overlooked.

Please don't criticise people's attempts to help. We're all volunteers with no reason to help you except that we like to - if the script didn't work or didn't solve your problem, explain what it didn't do that you wanted it to, or what it did that you didn't, and we can have another go. Saying that people didn't put in an effort or calling their comments whining won't convince them to help you in the future.

Finally, your parthian shot about about everything being obfuscated and overly complex - you've never mentioned that before. Start a thread about things like this! This is exactly the kind of feedback it'd be nice to hear, but a single sentence "it's too complex" doesn't help anyone suggest improvements.

Enchanter Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 698

Cuprohastes - Nothing I've read in this post or any other post would lead me to believe that the leading opinion is, "Why should CMUD be usable by most people? Let's make everything obfuscated and overly complex, that'll keep the dirty users away from our nice elitist MUD client!" Where do you get this impression?
I find the opposite to be true, quite frankly. When users post problems on this board, the gurus and others spend alot of time and effort to see those people get help and even encouragement.

The largest problem we have on this board is that we cannot communicate effectively. Certainly; if Vijilante, Larkin, Arminas or many others were able to talk to you face to face and see your scripts and window layout and even the bugs you're pointing out, this would go much more smoothly - but that is not the case.

When something like, "OK. The problem is: I can't do basic stuff because CMud, up to version 2.18 is still running with buggy parsing, and every time I've mentioned it I've been ignored and brushed off." The proper verbal response would be, "Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. That has not been my experience with the folks on the Zuggsoft forums. Can you show me an example of what isn't working the way you believe it should?" To which the response might be, "Well now, every other client I've ever used allows me to use syntax such as, #alias al {whisper al~=%params} and the alias will preserve every ansi character I decide to type after the 'al'." Then an explanation would follow that showed why zMud/CMUD isn't capable of doing that because in order to be able to do everything zMud/CMUD is capable of, certain characters are reserved for scripting. I suppose Zugg could get around this by requiring scripters to use extended asci for script parsing, or some keyboard manufacturer could add a couple extra shift keys for keying in those codes easily. But basically, <alt>+258 for example isn't easy to remember, it doesn't look unique and it would be very hard to figure out why a particular script isn't working if all the reserved characters were extended asci. More questions, answers and discussion would follow and hopefully some kind of an agreement or arrangement could be worked out.

On this forum, statements like "When I run the spell check, it fails or CMud crashes." doesn't tell us anything other than CMud crashes when YOU run spell check. This statement sounds like you just logged in to complain. I guess if your purpose was just to complain then it is no wonder that you feel ignored, I do my best to ignore my wife and co-workers when they complain too. If you would like confirmation or assistance, we'd need to know much more information and as Larkin stated, specific examples. I have CMUD 2.18 open right now and I just clicked edit|spell check and CMUD didn't crash or not work. I'm not logged in, but I have seven windows open for one session and each has historical MUD spam displayed. I can neither confirm nor deny your assertation when you state "When I run the spell check, it fails or CMud crashes." I can only choose to believe you or not and since that was the extent of the information you provided, I assume the purpose of your post was just to complain.

That's enough of a dissection of this thread for me. Hopefully I've been able to communicate my thoughts effectively enough to hint at the frustration I and others feel when too little or even no information is provided and posts just make statements without more information, ie. specific examples.

In your particular case, it sounds to me like you've got some bad packages and/or layout files if you're getting 1. inconsistent behavior with the same script and 2. crashes with the command line and window placement. I don't know if you've upgraded over previous versions but if so, I'd suggest a clean install of 2.18 in a separate folder, recreating your layout, and IMPORTING your settings into it. No guarentees, but that might help with some of those problems.

EDIT for clarification.

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

http://cuprohastes.com/lj/cmud/

Wanderer Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 92

Ah here we are:
http://www.cuprohastes.com/lj/cmud/Bug5.jpg

Presses f7 to run the spell check.

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:13 am

I'm going to lock this thread now - it's not doing anything productive. If anyone (OP included) has reports related to the issues posted earlier, feel free to start a new thread for each separate problem.