Zugg Software :: View topic - [2.11Pro] Use of #RETURN multiple times in a function non-intuitive to me

Apprentice Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 132

This seems a mountain out of a molehill. Wasted time figuring out the syntax of a new scripting language? All languages have individual quirks and syntaxes that make them somewhat different than the others. Those who are learning those languages need to learn those quirks and syntaxes without expecting them to just conform to what they're used to because they are used to it.

#RETURN does not work the same way in zscript as it works in some other languages. As long as that is stated in the help file it seems unlikely that those with strong programming backgrounds are going to be storming the forums completely baffled and bewildered. It is not exactly rocket science. All of my programming background involved the traditional usage of #RETURN and I have no issues once I tested it a bit. I think people are overreacting.

I would much rather time was spent dealing with the remaining elusive bugs than fixing something that is not broken.

Wizard Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 1113 Location: USA

I apologize for starting what has turned into a heated argument. It wasn't my intent to say that #RETURN is done wrong. I was simply asking if I had it right that this was the correct functionality and not a bug. I also just wanted to see the help file for the command updated to clarify this so that others like myself wouldn't hit the same thing and wonder about it for too long. Thanks, Fang (and Zugg)!

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:29 pm

OK, so I might have a solution to this mess that addresses the various issues that have been raised.

What if I rename the #RETURN to #RESULT ?

It seems like the main problem some people were having was that the name of this command made people think of the "return" function in other languages that works differently. And as someone mentioned, #RETURN doesn't actually "return" from the function. So #RESULT might be a better way of reminding people that you are just setting the result of the function and are not returning.

It's a simple, trivial change for me. Since this is still in Beta Testing, maybe it's not a big problem for people to change their existing scripts? Especially if using #RETURN instead of #RESULT will give you a syntax error.

At the risk of continuing to spend way too much time on a trivial issue, what do people think of this solution? It would take me about 10 seconds to implement.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:35 pm

I think so far the sides of the discussion have been "Don't mind" and "Change something" - nobody's actually been strictly defending the way things stand. So a change might be the way to go.

Apprentice Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 113

I don't think the change to #RESULT would be too problematic. Particularly if the change for functions to return null stands for result also.

Even then, it's not too hard to just search for functions only and manually replace #RETURN with #RESULT.

EDIT: If anything, all I'd see it as is an aesthetic change, nothing more. I'm not entirely sure change is necessary, provided the help documentation explains it adequately. "Unlike the return command you may see in other languages, blah, blah."

Enchanter Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 605

If this will make both sides happy then ok, let it be the #RESULT command. When it will be the right time to make changes if not now?

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:17 pm

Apprentice Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 113

I'm not really seeing where the problem is. It seems to be explained well enough in the help file (which is where I'd imagine most would learn of the #RETURN command in the first place.)

Although, I will admit that this discussion reminds me of the whole "The pen is blue" scene from Liar Liar. >.>

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:59 pm

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:05 pm

Edited: OK, I've decided. #RETURN is changed to #RESULT in v2.12.

Also, since #BREAK is no longer used for the debugger, I have changed #BREAK to be the same as "#ABORT 0" and I have added #EXIT to be the same as "ABORT 1". Mostly because I really hate those ambiguous special arguments like the #ABORT command has. Makes it really hard to remember what aborts the entire script and what just aborts the current block, especially for newbies. I'm also adding #CONTINUE to cause the loop to go to the next iteration. So basically, #BREAK and #CONTINUE work the same as in C and Delphi, and #EXIT works the same as "exit" in Delphi. #ABORT will be left for backwards compatibility.

Also, instead of getting rid of #RETURN, I have implemented #RETURN the same way as in C: So #RETURN will be the same as "#RESULT value;#ABORT 1". So this makes #RETURN work the same as in other languages, and yet retains the #RESULT command for people like me who prefer the Delphi way of doing things.

If someone still has a remaining complaint after these changes, I'll just have to *bonk* you on the head Razz

Edited: Oh, and the be a bit clearer about this...#BREAK doesn't exactly work like #ABORT 0. #BREAK will break you out of the current loop, not just the current "block". So, if you have a nested #IF statement within a #LOOP, the #BREAK will abort the #LOOP and not just the #IF like #ABORT 0 would do. I think this is something else that people have been wanting (another reason #ABORT isn't really the best).

Edited Again: Also, there is a difference between #EXIT and '#ABORT 1'. '#ABORT 1' terminates the entire thread. #EXIT just exits the current script. Imagine that you have a script that calls a function. If the function uses #EXIT (or #RETURN) then the function exits and returns a value, but the calling script continues to run (again, just like in C). But if the function calls '#ABORT 1', then the function exits, but also the calling script terminates. Again, I think this is what people would expect.

Wizard Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1127 Location: London

Just incase someone happens to use both and does

#RESULT blah
#RETURN

then I'm guessing it'll return blah?

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:45 pm

Correct. #RETURN without any argument just maintains whatever result is already set. If no result is set, then the result is null.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Sounds great Zugg. I think this will please everyone! Smile

The addition of #BREAK, #CONTINUE and #EXIT will be useful too. I assume #BREAK and #CONTINUE also work in a #WHILE block?

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

Yay! All the reasons to avoid #ABORT are now actually corrected by using other commands. A final not so small request...get rid of #ABORT. Put it into the compatibility report with the message "#ABORT now longer recognized, please see #BREAK, #CONTINUE, and #EXIT in the help to determine which is right". Just a request.

And definitely 15 cheers for Zugg, we have useful goto's now! Hip, hip, huzzah! Very Happy

Novice Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 49

and now I'm even more confused than ever about functions...heh..just when I figured out how to use them too...lol

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:32 am

Which is the only problem with doing it this way - it's a lot of complication for not a lot of benefit. But then again, I don't think Average Joe is going to use the more complex stuff, so I guess catering to everyone is good.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

I'm sure it will become clearer once it is properly documented.

Apprentice Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 124

Thank you Zugg!

Apprentice Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 132

The old #RETURN would have become clearer once properly documented as well. Before it was pretty simple and even relative neophytes could figure out how to use a function pretty quickly. Now it's more complicated and while those with a programming background find it more intuitive, those without one now just have a more complicated command to try to figure out.

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5182

It is not complicated at all. The only command required in a function is now #RESULT. Zugg was kind enough to make all the rest for us, and most of them will be used in things other then functions.

Wizard Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269

Or you can use #RETURN instead of #RESULT for an immediate exit from the function.

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:36 pm

Wizard Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 1551 Location: Australia

... so if we #ABORT a #RETURN and haven't set a #RESULT do we #CONTINUE to #TRY to #BREAK Zugg's sanity, causing him to #THROW himself off a bridge with nobody to #CATCH him, #FINALLY allowing him to #EXIT to a heaven devoid of script languages? Very Happy

Adept Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 250 Location: Austin, TX

I'll pile on and say, "Thanks, Zugg!" for catering to all of our (often conflicting) opinions. I like the new changes, and I'm eager to get my hands on 2.12 and try 'em out.