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What would people like to see with CMUD v1.02?
Fix critical issues and release 1.02 sooner (this week)
78%
 78%  [ 45 ]
Fix as many bugs as possible, waiting a couple more weeks for a release
21%
 21%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 57

Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:40 pm   

What would people like for v1.02?
 
I'd be interested in knowing what people would prefer for the 1.02 version of CMUD.
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Rainchild
Wizard


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 1551
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:16 pm   
 
I think we're all pretty keen to sink our teeth into the working settings editor and triggers and stuff like that, so probably sooner is better, then aim for 1.03 to be the 'fix as many bugs as possible' version :)

Do you have any rough outline of your implementation plan you would be happy to share? ... nothing we can hold you to of course, but something like:

1.02 - critical fixes
1.03 - max bug fixes
1.04 - settings wizard
1.05 - sql mapper
1.06 - max bug fixes
1.07 - database module
1.08 - mxp forms and mud ui tweaks

etc
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:57 pm   
 
I'm with Rainchild on the "sooner is better." With some of the critical issues fixed, particularly issues with scripts and settings (from my perspective, at least), I'll be able to start writing more serious scripts for CMUD and digging deeper into it.
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:36 pm   
 
Here is what I'm thinking right now:

1.02 - critical fixes
1.03 - max bug fixes

then, I'm doing the SSH plugin, and also the zTelnet (or zSSH or whatever) version.

then, I'll be adding the MXP forms and other features mentioned in the "Missing from CMUD" article (like the settings wizards).

As mentioned in the "Missing" article, I don't currently plan to do the "sql mapper" or "database module" until *after* the first CMUD public release. I decided that these major features would cause a large delay in the public release and that many people would just rather use CMUD for their main MUD client even if it had the zMUD mapper and database module.

The other reason for this is that the "sql mapper" also requires a new version of zMapper (CMapper?) which adds to the time. And the "database module" will have it's own stand-alone program for performing database stuff outside of CMUD (CSQL?).

I don't expect the SSH stuff to be really hard as long as the SecureBlackBox SSH components turn out to be good. If those components turn out to be really buggy, then I'll have to rethink this. But with what I've seen so far, I think I can do the SSH stuff in about a month, which isn't bad.
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Belmyrddyn
Magician


Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 371
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:16 am   
 
Are plugins slated for going in when you start working on MXP forms, or are they much further down the line? I can't really use cMUD until I can port my plugin over. I've developed plugin commands that virtually all of my scripts use, so I'm holding off on purchasing cMUD until the plugin support is at least on the horizon.
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:17 am   
 
Plugins are included in the "other features mentioned on the missing from CMUD page". People should really go read that page: Things not found in CMUD. For each item, it mentioned when I plan to implement it.
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mr_kent
Enchanter


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:10 am   
 
I think sooner is better too. I'm sure more new bug reports can be generated for issues not yet found. Might as well get the list more complete before maxing the fixes.
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TonDiening
GURU


Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Posts: 1958
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:17 am   
 
Larkin wrote:
I'm with Rainchild on the "sooner is better." With some of the critical issues fixed, particularly issues with scripts and settings (from my perspective, at least), I'll be able to start writing more serious scripts for CMUD and digging deeper into it.


I'm with them two on sooner as better. Many of my old scripts are baked and I'm second guessing is it my crappy code or a bug on my rewrite. Smile
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Namsar
Beginner


Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney - Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:02 am   
 
I'm pretty much thinking along the lines ot 1.02-1.05 just fixing all the bugs that exist big OR small.. Why add new features where there still are things not correct how it is ?
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:47 am   
 
My thoughts on this..

Sooner.

Why? Well when i think about all the beta testing i have ever done one thing seems to stand out true.

The inital release is almost always plagued with bugs however determining which are incidental bugs and which are truly bugs is always an issue. In this case the inability to effectually use the settings properly has limited how far people can delve into everything. You may fix EVERY BUG YOU HAVE now only to find you have to go back and rework some of them again because they were resultant bugs of some other bug. (I.e. not really a problem only a problem due to an existing syntax bug of sorts)

So might i suggest releasing your "Critical fixes" Settings triggers alias problems etc...

Then follow that when you have a clearer view and certainly more bugs listed because people are able to dig into various other things.
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Vijilante
SubAdmin


Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 5182

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:39 am   
 
I am definitely on the side of critical fixes for 1.02. There were enough odd crash issues that I pretty much gave up trying to test 1.01, so having those things fixed will make it more possible to really test everything.
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Guinn
Wizard


Joined: 03 Mar 2001
Posts: 1127
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:38 pm   
 
Fix as many bugs as possible, waiting a couple more weeks for a release

Being brutally honest, the excitement has gone a little and I'd be looking for a version that works far more smoothly before I try again. My home PC was rebuilt a couple of weeks ago and I've not installed CMUD again, so I'm actually going to be cheeky and just download a new trial when it's out, then buy once it's stable. A couple more weeks wouldn't bother me anymore.
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betrayedslinky
Beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:07 pm   
 
Why not just buy it now instead of waiting until a fix, downloading the trial, then buying it after your trial it? Sounds like you want to buy it already. I don't see trial version people having alot of weight in decisions for the beta. Just being brutally honest ;)
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1244

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm   
 
I say release critical fixes first for the following reasons:

1. It means that people downloading CMUD for the first time next week will get a more usable version and won't be so put off, and are more likely to buy it.
2. It allows your beta testers to delve further into CMUD, test more things and not lose their patience.
3. It means that you reduce the total number of bug reports you will receive.
4. It means that users don't spend so much time reporting the same bugs as others have already reported.
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:30 pm   
 
Quote:

I don't see trial version people having alot of weight in decisions for the beta. Just being brutally honest ;)


That is the most assinine statement i can remember reading. (Just being brutally honest)

Those same trial members on cmud could be zmud customers for 5+ years simply not at the point of purchase however who have also participated in nearly every single zmud beta that has happened.

In either case big or small everyone has a say and the only real "WEIGHT" is the decisions zugg makes based on feedback from all users New/Old/Trial/Purchased alike.

Those in trial mode are unable to utilize the package library as it stands. Things like this are there to give bonuses to those people who have purchased the product without restricting users in the trial any more than necessary.
"there are features in CMUD, like the package library, that don't work when in trial mode" <-- Zugg

However that doesnt mean they have no "Weight" during a beta. You cant penalize people for being cautious in an ecommerce world nor can you punish those who might be buying it 28 days from now but havent yet because they have to pay for life just as zugg does.

Some people are even just waiting to buy it once they are sure there is reasonable cause to upgrade (Stability etc) since your 2 year payment starts the date of purchase. Meaning if you purchased it on day 1 then you already blew through what a little over a month of that 24 month cycle just to play with it. Of course on the flip side there are people willing to pay just simply to support what zugg is trying to do. Rain, Tech, Myself, vigilante, larkin and others.

Just so there is 0 confusion. In my case i havent purchased my copy(I have however purchased a copy for my daughter. ) at this point due to an earlier incident and an offer from a member to gift me a copy. At which time if i am happy with the use of things i will purchase a copy i dont even need just to support the cause. My post is about everyone not me. and while my current status is as a "Trial User" i would sincerely hope zugg wouldnt be sitting there saying i have less weight than the person next to me simply because i havent put a copy in my name.

There are people in various betas (DAoC, EQ2, FFXI, Microsoft etc.) who never buy the product they test yet make fantastic contributions into helping build a more attractive product and helping to encourage others to join up. Vircom Interactive and Nexon both went as far as to contribute free versions of their products to those who made significant contributions/Ran serious websites about their game and also included them in the credits of the games themselves.

Money != Worth in Beta Testing

Think first post later
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mr_kent
Enchanter


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:32 am   
 
WEIGHT, Weight, weight... I'm feeling very self-consious all of a sudden.
I'm gonna have to ask Chiara about that low-carb lifestyle - I'm at an all time high, unfortunately.
Hrmmh, what was this thread about?
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:06 am   
 
lol Mr_Kent.
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betrayedslinky
Beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:12 am   
 
We were merely identifying 2 different ways to implement a business plan with CMud. ;)
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:38 pm   
 
When I'm looking at the bug reports and crash dumps in my database, I have no idea if they are from a trial version or not. So I'm treating all bug reports equally. I don't have any idea why betrayedslinky thinks I treat trial users with less "weight", because I certainly do not and never have in the 10 years Zuggsoft has been in business. When I get an email, I don't check to see if they are registered before helping them. When I read a forum post, I have no idea if the poster is a registered user or not, nor do I care.

So, I'd prefer that people do not spread un-true "rumors". I pride myself on providing high-quality support to *everyone* regardless of whether they are registered. And *everyone* has a say in how my products are improved or developed.
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betrayedslinky
Beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:59 pm   
 
I apologize, I didn't think that my opinion would lead to a misunderstanding and I was merely saying it haphazardly thus why I included the ;) In retrospect I should've rephrased or just not said it. Sorry about that.
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:32 am   
 
Its because his slinky betrayed him!! i got it.
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Sir1l
Wanderer


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:25 am   Current State
 
I wanted to know if CMUD is playable...When I say this can I make simple triggers, save them and it won't crash or anything? I want to buy it, but only when it's a "stable" copy.
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slicertool
Magician


Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 459
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:38 am   Re: Current State
 
Sir1l wrote:
I wanted to know if CMUD is playable...When I say this can I make simple triggers, save them and it won't crash or anything? I want to buy it, but only when it's a "stable" copy.


wait until the next batch of bug fixes. Triggers are currently having issues, but CMud is quite usable as an ordinary telnet client at the moment.
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jenca1872
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:07 am   
 
I'm thinking that fixing as many bugs/issues as possible with a delay in releasing the next version would be a good approach.... make a priority list, and start with whatever seems to be the biggest most troublesome bug and work down to the less critical stuff. Setting a possible release dat say 2 or 3 weeks and get to as much as possible inthat time beofre the release and hold the other items for the following release. It seems like delaying the release would cut down on the amount of cramming Zugg would have to do, and keep Chiara from having to pry him away from the computer to get him to take a break. Not to mention the overall quality of the fixes would be better then they might otherwise be if he was trying to fix X number of bugs in a single week, rather then allow himself some extra time to do fixes that might be more stable or whatever. I was in on the early stages of Zmud, so I know what these early versions are like, I purchased Zmud back when version 3.x which I believe is now free was first released. I know there are power mudders who want everything working quickly, but I feel that quality and stability are more impportant then trying to rush and do a sloppy job with bandaides instead of an actual fix. Yes, I bought Cmud already, but it's because I know the kind of work Zugg does, and how he makes steady progress on getting everything to work right and also implimenting new features. Knowing how far Zmud has come, and the progress it made, I would rather wait and have a more stable fix then to have a half-witted ptch that isn't neccesarily all that more stable then what it was suppose to fix was. I won't complain though, if Zug decides to do an early release, but at the same time I don't want him to have to work with potentially unrealistic deadlines created by pressure from testers in general. Zugg did a lot of crunching just to get the first releases out, and based on things I read other places, it sounds like Chiara might have been temporarily widowed as Zugg pushed to get Cmud released in the first place. Which is another thing I'm factoring into my feeling in regards to allowing him more time before the next release. I'm sure his family would like to spend time with him just as much as we would like to see another release. So, In general I would prefer stability and not burning Zugg out over high preassure releases wich short deadlines. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Ceres
Wanderer


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:33 am   
 
Perhaps if you had another cent you would also use paragraphs!
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