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mr_kent
Enchanter


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:05 am   

What does everyone think?
 
From another thread:
Deagan wrote:
This may be annoying to you, but you have to understand that this is the beta version of Cmud and I'm sure that all issues will be addressed in time, but we should work out the major ones first. Be positive about all the hard work that Zugg has put into this new and exciting program.


What is the best feature/change you see in CMUD?

1) I loved the installation process. I've never seen such a large application install so quickly, and there were plenty of options.

2) I really like flyout windows, too. Great stuff!

What parts of CMUD does everyone else like. Yes, we know it's buggy and we knew it would be, but what gets everyone excited?

zMUD was developed over many years and pieces were added bits at a time. I think Zugg deserves some major praise for getting CMUD this far in nine months!
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Yamabushi
Apprentice


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 101
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:08 am   
 
I like the look and feel of the program. Very clean and alot of potential with this software.

Best feature would have to be packages, but I can't use them yet (haven't paid for the program and it's disabled in the evaluation version).
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Dagnimaer
Wanderer


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 60
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:20 am   
 
Definately have to say the package system.
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Ceres
Wanderer


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:22 am   
 
I love the new docking system and the easy by which it is to get everything to fit where you want it.

[Edit] Still love it even though the layout refuses to save.

I personally don't like the flyout where it is and would like to be able to either remove it altogether or move it to the other side.


Last edited by Ceres on Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tech
GURU


Joined: 18 Oct 2000
Posts: 2733
Location: Atlanta, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:29 am   
 
I'm loving the new docking system and the new UI layout. Everything is clean and effective and very intuitive.

[Edit] I especially like the fly out reference. Great for the quick look up while coding.
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Last edited by Tech on Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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avidal
Beginner


Joined: 04 Jun 2002
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:30 am   
 
The layout is so premiere. The flyouts, the settings window, the docking, everything. And even buggy, it moves pretty damn fast.
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MattLofton
GURU


Joined: 23 Dec 2000
Posts: 4834
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:40 am   
 
Looks great. Even all buggy and feature-poor (sort of, in a compared-to-Zmud sort of way) like it currently is, it still looks and feels like a mature ZMud with a couple new shiny bells and whistles. I certainly don't regret buying it now, but I'm honestly very uninterested in it at the moment given the Simu connection problems.

It's sort of weird, like knowing Santa didn't get me anything this year and still getting super-excited come Christmas morning.
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:58 am   
 
Ok what i really like i just kinda messed around with and figured out so..

I love teh (Save disk icon) in your scripts your working on.. IT LETS YOU EXPORT TO TXT WHEE

And im absolutly in love with the script compiler. Its a great way to let me see what it sees. its been a great help in fixing up some of these scripts. (the tab that says compiled code)

WOOHOO!
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Tarn
GURU


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 865
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:37 am   
 
The new compiler. There will be growing pains, but it was time for a clean start.

Packages.

I know that neither are things most users will directly notice but they'll allow the power users to help everyone else out a lot more efficiently and, in particular, make the learning curve of scripting a lot less steep because the behavior will be much more consistent and predictable.

-Tarn


Last edited by Tarn on Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:41 am   
 
I think v 1.01 gave me a lotta hope. AWESOME JOB ZUGG!

I can now do my settings and mud files.. I just had to delete the pkg files and boom everything came up.. now back to fixing those scripts.!!!!!!!!
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:42 am   
 
Btw, try this with the flyout windows:

1) Hover the mouse over it so it flies out, then click the pin icon to pin the window in place
2) Now click the drop-down arrow in the caption bar to get a menu of options for the docked window
3) From the Align submenu, select Left (it should have Right currently selected)
4) See the window move to the Left side of the screen? OK, now click on the pin icon to un-pin it
5) Weee...now it has the flyout tab on the left side of the screen.

If you do all of this without opening any settings or packages (hit ESC from the character selection or just click the X button to close it), then you can use the Layout/Save Layout option and save the docked layout to the CMUD.XLY file. That's the file that CMUD gets the default window layout from when you first start CMUD. The CMUD.TBZ is the default toolbar layout that is loaded at startup.

Heh, I just tried this in 1.01 and got another crash on exit, but oh well, it was still fun.
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Zugg
MASTER


Joined: 25 Sep 2000
Posts: 23379
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:44 am   
 
And, btw, thanks for the comments. The stuff in this thread *really* helps.

For example, edb: the Compiled Code setting was just there for my own debugging purposes. But if it's something you find useful, I guess maybe I'll leave it there and add the same tab to some of the other settings. Never realized people would find it useful. So see...if edb hadn't posted that, I would have never known.
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Rainchild
Wizard


Joined: 10 Oct 2000
Posts: 1551
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:08 am   
 
I think it's expected that we would have a rocky start :) I mean, when we moved from the 5 series to the 6 series, or the mxp enhancements, or the .mdb based mapper we always managed to bring zMUD to its knees... and this is the multi-phasic, borg-nano-technoliged, transcendent warp dynamiced, adaptive gigaquadded rebuild of the enterprise we're talking about here.. I'm just glad we got Zugg down in engineering, because Scotty wouldn't be able to keep up :D

Anyway, the thing I'm most looking forward to is being able to build the zApp-style forms for my builders on the MUD, but that aside there's plenty in this current version keeping me interested - the fact I logged my mortal on for the first time in 6 months is testament to that :)
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Riesz
Novice


Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Plymouth, England

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:24 am   
 
Compiled code certainly seems interesting, definately something handy to debug with.

Obviously the interface for the whole application is so pretty. I can't wait until when I can put CMud into full time use! The interface as a whole seems to work together a lot better than zMud.

The settings editor looks great as well. Been tearing my hair out with the lack of screen space on zMud recently for my more recent scripts (more complex than my early ones). I'll be happy coding big scripts in the huge amounts of space available in CMud.

And Rainchild, he's certainly kept his reputation as a miracle worker :D
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TonDiening
GURU


Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Posts: 1958
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:43 am   
 
I got mortals logged in again after quite some time as well :) Feel like a n00b again as I did when multi-state triggers appeared on the scene in v6 something.

I love the fly-out window things and 1.01 is much better to spend some time playing about.

Great work Zugg!
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:12 pm   
 
Things I really like about CMUD:
- New docking system. The little drag over icons for docking to the side are awesome and make it much easier to do complicated layouts.
- New splash screen. I have a thing for redheads. What else can I say?
- Compiled code tab.
- Preferences dialog layout.
- Packages. Being able to break scripts up into bite-sized chunks and store them as separate packages could have very nice benefits. I haven't gotten to play around with it much yet, but I'm really looking forward to having the time to explore this stuff soon.

Things I miss from zMUD (and haven't yet found in CMUD, if they exist):
- Ability to import scripts from text files from the menu. I'm sure I'll eventually have my scripts all drawn up in XML or in packages, but I'm just so used to the text file method that it will take some getting used to with CMUD. I do really like the ability to parse scripts from the editor, however!
- Hiding the main window when the app first loads and only opening it when you open a session. I've run into one or two bugs related to the "Close all" function and opening a session again after it was supposedly closed (and apparently wasn't?). Besides that, however, it just made more sense to me that the session window was opened first and then the main window opened with the first session you selected. It seems like a good paradigm to me.

Miscellaneous comments:
- The bug reporting system is nice, but lacks in a few features I might find useful. It would be nice to be able to back up to a previous step, such as going back to edit the description. I'd also like to be able to see a list of what I've submitted so far and maybe even add notes to them. Would hate to send the same bug report a half dozen times in a half dozen different ways, not realizing they might all be related. The web site tracking system doesn't seem to be fully operational or else just isn't designed to allow users any access to the system. The old one was a little more user friendly because we could search and comment.
- I haven't tried CMUD online yet because I'm afraid of what catastrophes I might bring down on my precious characters. Oddities in the script engine, random crashing, and unexplained flickering or slow refresh doesn't give me the confidence I need for putting the system to the full test. I look forward to the next revisions eagerly, and I see great potential for this client.
- Speaking of revisions, I've noticed that the old 8.00 number is still found in a couple of places: the screenshot on the Downloads page and the installer.

Thanks again, Zugg, for your dedication to the text-based gaming community!
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cmurphy54
Beginner


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:40 pm   
 
Honestly, not to be a downer or anything, but other than the pretty GUI, it doesn't seem that different from zMud to me.

The new GUI is pretty, but there are definitely rough edges (as expected in a beta).
The script window does provide more room to write your code, which is a plus, and the syntax checking is nice, but I'd really like to see an IntelliSense feature.
The compiled scripts are nice, but I haven't really had too many instances where zMud's speed was an issue.
Packages are good in theory, but I'll withhold judgement on them until people start publishing packages and they can be evaluated in the wild. I suspect packages will mostly only be applicable to specific MUDs and that larger MUDs will get some great packages, but the smaller MUDs won't get any packages written specifically for them and so for users of the smaller MUDs, packages may be less of a draw.

It's an incremental improvement (assuming all the bugs are fixed), but not really a revolution so far.
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:52 pm   
 
That reminds me... I wanted to comment that I like the tooltips in the script editor. I think they should be more expanded, though. Instead of something like "#alias s cmd t" I'd like to see whole words (who wants to have to guess what 's' and 't' stand for?) and even a multi-line tooltip with a quick help sort of thing. I know that this is part of the user help system, so it's not a top (tip?) priority yet. Just wanted to mention it now so it wasn't overlooked later.
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edb6377
Magician


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:14 pm   
 
Code:

- Ability to import scripts from text files from the menu. I'm sure I'll eventually have my scripts all drawn up in XML or in packages, but I'm just so used to the text file method that it will take some getting used to with CMUD. I do really like the ability to parse scripts from the editor, however!


The editor lets you do this. Its just a pain in the arse about syntax even when its valid. But if you take the time to correct the syntax to what it likes (all though its not always correct) then you can send it to your mud window in offline mode and everything will be recreated.

The other option and probably less time consuming one is to open your mud file in cmud and extract what you need into individual packages.

Either option works.

Yeah its mentioned as 8.00 in the agreement as well when installing.

Code:

 I haven't tried CMUD online yet because I'm afraid of what catastrophes I might bring down on my precious characters. Oddities in the script engine, random crashing, and unexplained flickering or slow refresh doesn't give me the confidence I need for putting the system to the full test.


Good idea my admins are working on restoring some eq that poofed off my char after a huge set of like 10-15 crashes in a row. They think it caused some sort of savings glitch LOL

I have been working in offline mode since. (doesnt matter anyways since triggers dont fire properly unless recreated. I am working on redoing my aliases scripts first before i get into all my triggered scripts.
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:59 pm   
 
You might notice in the section that you quoted that I mentioned I did like importing scripts from the CMUD Editor. It's great to be able to easily edit the scripts right there in CMUD and not have to always use an external editor and the Import (ASCII) option. I'm just saying that I already do have an extensive library of scripts that I'd like to be able to import/convert with some sort of import command. It seems I'll just end up loading them in the editor and fixing them up to import them... I can live with it. It's just different. :)
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Tech
GURU


Joined: 18 Oct 2000
Posts: 2733
Location: Atlanta, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:00 pm   
 
Maybe I'm daft or blind (and I'm sure it's probably both... Very Happy ) but I haven't seen where I go to import my .mud other then letting CMUD doing it automatically.
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:02 pm   
 
You use the File -> Open from the settings editor, where it lets you select either a .mud or .pkg. When you save the settings then, it prompts you to save the .mud files as .pkg files.
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parrotslave
Wanderer


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 81
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:33 pm   
 
It seems that whatever I try to do it generates an error.

Click on a window - error message pops up.

Send a command - error message pops up.

Try to scroll - error message pops up.

Tried saving and restarting - still got errors.

Tried uninstalling and reinstalling - still got errors.

And none of my triggers would fire.

Guess I'll just wait until the next version.
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Larkin
Wizard


Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1113
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 pm   
 
You had all those problems on 1.01? I still have regular crashes in 1.01, but at least now I'm able to load settings and play around for a bit longer than before.
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dedawgg
Beginner


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:26 pm   
 
I like a lot of the features that have been added, and I can see a lot of uses I can get out of CMUD other than MUD'ing.

I'm somewhat inexperienced with Zmud and MUDs, thus maybe not the best candidate for beta testing, but I've been pretty confused with the new Edit Settings window. I noticed that when I tried to create a trigger or alias, it gets thrown into a package called "untitled." It would seem like it should allow me to rename it or do so automatically...but I dunno how. Like others have mentioned, they don't seem to save...as soon as I reopen Cmud, it's wiped clean.

If I jump through a couple hoops with creating a new package, creating an alias, trigger, etc., saving the package, and manually opening it the next time I open Cmud, then it seems to be ok.

The overall look is very nice and it seems like cmud will be a totally awesome program...just seems like it could be tweaked a bit for newer users such as myself. Any crashes or bugs aren't bothering me since it's obviously beta and can be reported automatically.
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