Zugg Software :: View topic

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 11:51 am

I upgraded to 6.4 on the day of it's release, and was unimpressed with the new implementation of the mapper compared with 6.16. I persisted with it for a day trying to make my old maps work etc but have finally given up and reverted to 6.16 :( Here's a few of the reasons, maybe I'm missing something somewhere and you guys can put me right.

1) Small point, but very very annoying. The conversion of my 6.16 maps was SLOW beyond imagining, I have a lot of large maps and it took about 40 minutes. Not really a huge problem but when it tried to create the inter-zone links it totally crashed my computer. Tried twice and finally imported each zone manually into a fresh install.

2) All the 'other-type' links such as 'enter door' on all the maps were shown with a visible link to the dot, ok this could be fixed by going to each of these and hiding it, but it took ages just for one map.

3) All the maps now appear to be combined in some Microsoft .mdb format. I seem to have lost the flexibility of separate .map files for each zone. This is a real issue for me on the large MUD I play on, I'm not personally going to map the whole thing, nor is anyone else. Separate .map files enabled the whole mapping process to be shared.

4) The new mapper is very very fussy about what you can do in follow/map modes compared to 6.16. I can understand that it's for consistancy but Grrr switching modes every two seconds isn't my idea of fun.

5) This point could be due to the limited time I spent playing with the new mapper, but I found the new mapper interface anti-intuitive, for instance creating a link to a room where the entrance is 'enter stall' and the exit is 'leave', this took me 7 or 8 attempts to work out how to do with new version and although I got the hang eventually it felt an unnatural procedure.

6) It is *slow*, I mean *really slow*, this is my biggest complaint with it, I'm not running on NASA spec hardware or anything, but i think a PIII 800MHz PC with 128M of RAM should really be able to cope. Mapping is sluggish to the point of annoyance, even changing a link from hidden to unhidden causes a 2 second delay. When you delete a handful of rooms it even brings up a progress bar!

In summary the old 6.16 mapper is simply dreamy in comparison even with its quirks. I'm sure 6.4 has some great fixes/new features but sadly all the points above mean I for one won't be taking advantage of them.

Gnoklu

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

1) Yes, you are right, converting does take time. No way around this, sorry.

2) Try suggesting it to Zugg, he may be able to include an option for this in a future version. Also, if you want, I could write a script to go through the database and set this option for every link of type 'other'.

3) What you describe can now be done by using the import/export capabilities of zMapper. If you use the mapper a lot, you might want to check out zMapper since it lets you add many enhancements to your maps. If you are willing, step by step procedure of how to divide mapping between various people using zMapper could be provided. You might also try mentioning this to Zugg to hear his opinion.

4) There are some things that can be done in one mode, than can't be done in another. Basically this has to do with the map being Locked while in Follow mode, which prevents accidentaly changing something. If your concern is speedwalking, there is an option in the Map Properties that allows speedwalking in Map Mode. Please mention anything else regarding this that is troubling you.

5) I don't follow you on this. Zugg went through great efforts to specificaly keep the new mapper as closely as posible to the old interface. To do what you describe, is the same method as always:

Map the room from where the exit to the room in question begins

Use the >enter stall>north command to create a room with entrance "enter stall" to the north (or any other physical direction you desire)

Alternatively, you could move to the room you want in the MUD, create the room manually, set the current position in that room, perform a #LOOK command, edit the properties of the previous room so the exit has the "enter stall" keyword

Finally, edit the properties of the rooms in case the exit is not a two-way link, and add the "leave" keyword to the other side of the exit

6) If the mapper is slow, it could be due to some bugs in some versions of MDAC. Basically (unless you have Win95) you want to make sure you install version 2.5, then upgrade to 2.7 and reconvert your maps using zsConvert to make sure you have the best maps. More info on this may be found in the post made by Troubadour that is atop the other posts in the General Forum.

Hope that this helps you. 6.40 has many great feautures that 6.16 doesn't have and it would be a shame for you to miss those.

Kjata

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:40 pm

Thanks for the reply

1) Yes fair enough, the crashing of the PC and the necessity to import each map separately and relink inter-zone is a pain but manageable.

2) A script would certainly be handy, all those lines zigging over the map are ugly. If the default were changed to hide link that'd be good, or the ability to set the position of the dot relative to the room (they always appear to the east). You say suggest to Zugg, how do I do that other than post here?

3) zMapper I don't own, I don't have the need for any of additional features that 6.16 didn't have. I don't want to pay 20$ to regain functionality I already had in 6.16 and I don't think my co-mappers would appreciate this additional outlay either. Maybe the export to zone functionality can be re-included in the next release of zMUD.

4) Well as I said, I understand why, it just means more mode changing. In 6.16 the map was basically unlocked in follow mode and you could do a lot of basic editing on-the-fly without changing mode all the time.

5) Well the interface has actually changed quite a bit, mainly when you edit the properties of a link you now only get 1 exit info to edit wheras previously you could edit both ends of the link. I'm sure with practice it'll become second nature, though why it was changed I have no idea.

6) Upgrading to 2.7 of MDAC has certainly speeded things up, however mapping is still _much_ slower than under 6.16 :(

I'll wait for the next release and run it as a separate installation, maybe the mapping speed and separate zone file issues (which are my only major concerns) will have been addressed and I will "move on up". For now 6.16 seems to be a better option.

SubAdmin Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 5187

3. You create your own export script for this as well. I would have to reread the online help about COM programming, but I know it can be done.

4. Make your own Follow Mode button. Put these 2 commands in it:
#MENU {Mapper|File|Follow Mode}
#NOOP %maplocked(0)

That will switch you to follow mode and unlock the map so you can edit it.

5. The mapper still displays and allows editting of both ends of the exit Zugg just rearranged things a little to allow more information to be displayed in the dialog.

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

2) After some testing, I find that the mapper does not display any visible link between exits of type 'other'. I know for sure that if changing an option resolves your problem, a script can be made to automate the process. So, if you could give me some more info, I would happily write the script. Just need a description of how the problem looks to you, what option is it that you disable for each exit, the type of exit on each end, and anything else that might help.

3) What Vijilante said is also true, since the map is now in a format that any external application or COM script may access.

5) Yes, I see what you mean. To jump to other side fo the link you can select the link from the list in the Room Properties and click on the arrow button near the top-right corner of the window.

Finally, you can always reach Zugg directly at [url="mailto:zugg@zuggsoft.com"]zugg@zuggsoft.com[/url]. He doesn't have time to read and answer every post in the General Forum, so it is best to always e-mail suggestions and bugs to him by e-mail. This also ensures that it gets entered into his database.

Kjata

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:24 pm

Thankyou both for your help.

The links which display badly are on all of my old imported maps (possibly the problem?). Room A has a link to room B via a standard exit, say east, but the return is a non-standard 'backward'. All these links show by default with a connected line from the east of A to the dot outside B, this looks very messy. To clean up all that is needed is to select the link properties and untick the show link. If the script is going to be hard/lengthy for you to make please don't do it on my account, but maybe it would be handy for other people too.

The COM programming looks daunting so probably not a good option for me.

The #NOOP commands for the follow mode look great and will make things a lot simpler.

Again thanks for you help/comments. I'll draft a mail to Zugg tomorrow with a summary of the posts here.

Cheers
Gnoklu

Newbie Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 9 Location: USA

point 6 i have noticed mapper is real slow too
specially visible in speed walks with no mud verification

Iccor

Magician Joined: 17 Oct 2001 Posts: 371 Location: USA

Elaborate on what you mean by no 'mud verification'. This may be a matter of zMUD not being able to #OK the walk, if your running in SAFE or SLOW mode. Try changing to FAST, if you aren't.

Belmyrddyn