Zugg Software :: View topic

Beginner Joined: 01 May 2002 Posts: 18

I'm not very knowledgable about programming languages in general and was wondering if it would somehow be possible to take the code of the alice or eliza chat bots and use them in zmud. An example of this being, someone sends you a tell, the tell goes to alice or eliza, it gives back a response and you reply it to that person.

BTW for people who are wondering what the sudden influx of new topics by me is because I'm trying to design an ultimate bot that will do almost everything a human player does and is nearly impossible to tell the difference.

Adept Joined: 09 Nov 2000 Posts: 222 Location: USA

Heh.. good luck.

By the way, it took me all of about 30 seconds to confuse Alice into giving answers that didn't make sense.

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 873 Location: USA

quote:

wondering if it would somehow be possible to take the code of the alice or eliza chat bots and use them in zmud.

For a simple bot like Eliza, I wouldn't bother with the code. Most of it is simply an implementation of basic triggers. Zugg was courteous enough to build this into zMud so we can skip that step of reimplementation

Look at the data file for Eliza- it's basically trigger and response with keywords.

An example from it follows:




i cant %


*"how do you know you can't %?


*:shakes her head, "I can't help you %"


*"have you tried?


*"you will never know unless you try


*"i think you are just scared to try.


*"maybe you really can.  i recommend that you try.

This is basically just triggering on the first line in the paragraph, and selecting a response from the ones following.

There are a couple of special flags; if you have any difficulty figuring them out, ask.

Just adapt the triggers to your mud. Example from the code I excerpted:
(*) tells you 'i can't (*)'

Then, toss all the triggers in a class, and you're ready to go.

For those who don't have a copy of the source handy, I believe it's still up at
ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/MUD/Robots/
and quite a few other places.

quote:

I'm trying to design an ultimate bot that will do almost everything a human player does and is nearly impossible to tell the difference.

Intelligent conversation is probably where you'll have the most difficulty. Simple bots can often keep 'innocents' busy, but someone who is looking to test it can usually find a flaw in a very short time.

alicebot.org used to have a COM-packaged bot available, but I don't know anything about it other than that TonDiening tried and failed to get it to work.

-Tarn

Beginner Joined: 01 May 2002 Posts: 18

All the bot needs to do basically is respond to an imm testing to see if it is a bot. From experience usually imms either just say hi or ask if you're botting. As long as it gives a comprehendable response it'll do fine.

GURU Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 4379 Location: USA

So if they just usually say hi or ask if you are botting, why not create triggers for these cases that respond appropietly? I still have trouble believing the "nearly impossible to tell the difference" part, but this is just my opinion and you don't need to answer if you don't want to.

Kjata

Novice Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 32 Location: USA

I think a more interesting take on this might be to ensure that you forumlate responces to the typical imm queries which are both dismissive and polite. Most imms don't take well to being told to go away because you're busy.... so how do you get the bot to respond in a manner which discourages further conversation while not antagonizing the imm INTO further conversation.

I guess that's more of a human problem than a technical one, but one which is interesting nonetheless.

My recomendation would be something like: Oh hi soandso, I didn't realize you were on.

Then have the system wait an indeterminant amount of time...say.... 1 to 3 mins. Watch for imm departing messages etc... if you see them, cancel further actions. If not, execute a "I gotta go" script. Announce that the snack you are preparing is burning, that the phone is ringing, any number of excuses to go afk. Do so, and then have the bot wait for another period of time before resuming...

--Killfile

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:03 am

Hehe, that sounds like a good suggestion.. Much better than being able to carry on a conversation ala Eliza etc.

Lady C.

(Didnt Darker write an eliza-type thingy?)

GURU Joined: 23 Dec 2000 Posts: 4834 Location: USA

quote:

Hehe, that sounds like a good suggestion.. Much better than being able to carry on a conversation ala Eliza etc.

Lady C.

(Didnt Darker write an eliza-type thingy?)

Might want to make that second pause (after the imm leaves) a bit on the long side. Some might become curious/bored enough to tag along without engaging in further interaction unless they find out you're deceiving them (which is also another big turn-off for them).

li'l shmoe of Dragon's Gate MUD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:25 pm

As the Immortal on a mud which will remain nameless, I have caught my fair share of bots. My personal method to catch botters is to use an echo, rather than a tell. The best thing I can think of doing is to sound an alert any time you see your name. The problem with trying to make a script anwswer is that it's pretty easy to tell when you get the same answer or pattern a few times. If you're gonna try to write a script, be sure to put a set of answers in, and rotate them. Another big hint, is set yourself an alarm that matches the immortal's transfer message, so if they come to the room, or pull you to them, you can be back at your computer to try to keep your ass out of the fire. Of course, with any bot, be ready to come back to your screen to find you've been patched a dozen deaths for botting. Most muds don't appreciate bots.

Enchanter Joined: 10 Oct 2000 Posts: 698

I find I get the brush off quite quickly if I start asking imm's questions when they pop in to check on me.

I'd have the response part of the trigger start asking questions about new areas, not bugs, because then there will be more questions. Anyway, I don't get bothered much because when I get a hello from the imm's I take the position they must be bored or not busy, and start asking all the little things that I wonder about. After the second question, they usually make excuses and take off. Just a thought.

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 103

You can do this in about 3 easy steps. 1) install activestate Perl. 2) use the included ppm program to download the eliza chatbot module 3) Use zMud's COM scripting to input/output to/from eliza via. WSH (windows scripting host).

Wanderer Joined: 21 May 2001 Posts: 59 Location: USA

You know, it doesn't seem to make much sense to program a bot that will.. play the game for you. Why play at all? Combat systems I can understand. Hell, even some tedious automation I can understand, but what's the point of playing the game if you just plan to turn it on and then get up and leave? If an immortal asks you if you're botting, you should be there to turn off your system while they're talking and say no. Maybe hold a bit of chitchat with them.

Most of the success of muds today is due to their constant expansion and player involvement. I can guarantee you are missing the point if you want to make a bot that does everything a human can, and I can also guarantee you will not be able to make such a bot within any reasonable period of time, much less keep it up to date with a game that can potentially change every day.

Take it from an experienced programmer who's tried the same thing before. Give up on the quest for the Holy Grail Bot. Enjoy the game for its content. If its content consists of things that would force you to bot all day long, don't play it.

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 103

quote:
Originally posted by hatespyware

You can do this in about 3 easy steps. 1) install activestate Perl. 2) use the included ppm program to download the eliza chatbot module 3) Use zMud's COM scripting to input/output to/from eliza via. WSH (windows scripting host).

It later occured to me that step #3 might not be easy for a person who admits to not being very knowledgable about programming. Also, it seems to me that lots of people would benefit from understanding how to do this. I have therefore decided to write up a short tutorial on how to implement surrogate scripting in zMud via WSH, using your Elizabot as an example. Even if you don't fool anyone with it, I think it is a novel idea - one that should be encouraged. Good luck, and have fun!

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:19 pm

Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing when thinking about this:

Admin: Hello, are you botting?
Response: I don't know, how do you feel about botting?
Admin: Botting is illegal here.
Response: It sounds like you have some issues about botting.
Admin: You're darn right!
Response: Is this something you want to talk more about?
---you have been booted from the MUD---

Sorry, just remembering some of my old playing with Eliza programs back in the ancient days of mainframes and teletypes.

Apprentice Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 103

quote:
Originally posted by Zugg

Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing when thinking about this:

Admin: Hello, are you botting?
Response: I don't know, how do you feel about botting?
Admin: Botting is illegal here.
Response: It sounds like you have some issues about botting.
Admin: You're darn right!
Response: Is this something you want to talk more about?
---you have been booted from the MUD---

Sorry, just remembering some of my old playing with Eliza programs back in the ancient days of mainframes and teletypes.

Heh... Sounds about right for the default script. The default ai scripts she ships with are a bit unfortunate, since the psychoanalysis stuff gets old really quick. On the other hand, I remember watching people spend _hours_ trying to get into Eliza's pants back when she was a discreet door game on our bbs. I also know for a fact that with just a few quick modifications to the default script, an increased memory stack, and a failsafe excuse (a la eep! Phone call, g2g") to be used for a quick getaway after some predefined number of questions, that Eliza would be more convincing than a lot of _real_ newbie losers!

Apprentice Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 106

Everyone here has a great point. I started mudding when I lost my job in late 2007, and been at it ever since. I have a job now though and have been rapidly disappointed with most MMO's and MUDs. It seems that they are not tailored for the casual player, you must maintain a schedule of around 10 hours a day to keep up with the competition. Now some of you are most likely going to argue this, but I am referring to the PvP aspects. It is just very difficult to keep up with the mining, crafting, questing, leveling that your all day players are able to do with only a couple hours out of the day.

I had zMUD from the start because I found it rather quickly, and once I used it the first time I stuck with it. zMUD made it so easy for me to not worry about eating and drinking (its a MUD an escape from the reality why should my character be forced to eat and drink?), and keeping spells up while I could focus on fighting players or leveling and chatting. This brings me to the topic at hand. When I first began to play my MUD I was always there and never, ever, botted. Once I got a job and still tried to play I learned quite quickly that something was going to have to change.

I wrote my first full fledged bot with the help of these forums. This bot was my pride and joy. I was able to work all day, come home and actually enjoy the MUD because I had been able to keep up with the competition. The bot started working too well. I was enjoying the rewards from it a little too much and went on a killing spree one night, I racked up some 30 odd kills in just a few hours time on the MUD. People were jealous and complained. I got chewed out and I admitted I had been botting during the day and was actually there at night. See people got so used to me losing to them during the day (because the bot simply quested and ignored any other action, or waited long enough before it started back up) that when I got home that one night and destroyed them, they couldn't stand it!

Anyway, now I always get Imms chit-chatting with me because they know I know what I am doing and that I just may be botting. So let me just say you can create a bot to do what you want and even talk back to people, but it takes so much planning ahead and trial and error, and coding and re-coding that you could've been playing the game!