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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:06 am   

zmud y jaws
 
ok, first I want say my english is very bad and I'm Sorry if I say something wrong.

I know few years ago I ear about make accesibility the zmud, but... I try to run it and I want to report, the jaws (knowest program for read the screen) reads the line where the point of mouse is. When you use zmud, if you put the mouse in the last line, and then receive more information, the mouse is dawn the news lines, then, with the jaws, you must go up for read it, and you read the last line first.

I'm not sure to explain it right...

The really question is: is posible make one option for make move the pointer of mouse up when receive news lines?

That will help really alot to blind ppl because the program for read screen, read the line of the pointer marks.

Very thanks, I know maybe ppl think is really a stupid ask, but.. now muds are best play for blind ppl and is hard play it with the jaws because this little problem, obiously all ppl try it hard and get it.
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1241

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:48 am   
 
By the way, there is a plugin for zMUD called MUDReader available for download here. Might be of interest.
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ralgith
Sorcerer


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 715

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:53 pm   
 
I played a MUD with a guy who used a screen reader. We had issues at first getting him set up too.
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:23 pm   
 
I try (past) install the plugin but I can't... and.. I think, maybe the plugin will be a little problem, because if I need jaws for the all other things and put on another program talking I will turn crazy. I think is better only fix this little problem I ask if us can, I only explain the problem I have.. then.. I will try more install this plugin, but please, think about my pray, only an option for make the pointer of mouse rest in the line they are before receiving more lines. This will help VERY ALOT

Ty!!
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1241

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:56 pm   
 
Well, there is no ongoing development happening in zMUD. CMUD is the product that is actively being developed, so if you are asking for a new feature, you need to be asking over in CMUD. Although, it might be possible for a plug-in to be written for zMUD that does what you want. However, I don't know who you might persuade to write such a plug-in.

I know someone else who I believe uses zMUD with a screen reader, but they set it up so they were actually calling the screen reader with test from triggers (I think). This has both the advantages and disadvantages that you never miss text that you told it to read out. This can also be a disadvantage as you might have to wait a while until you hear that someone attacked you if there is other stuff that needs to be read out.

I have another idea: how about setting it up so you get a little dink sound when there is a new line of text. Then you can decide whether to move the mouse back up and continue there, or listen to the new stuff. Hmm, OK, that's probably too simplistic and not very workable...
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:10 am   
 
ty seb, your response is very interesting but... you really think how hard is make a trigger for make sound when new line is coming? there are the problem, i dont know a new line is coming, i must move mi line up and down all time to make the jaws read lines maybe it read something old, maybe it read something new, or maybe it read the line where i write jejeje. I think if really in zugg softare want make it accessibility they must know how ppl use the computer for really do it simple or.. more usefull. For that I post this. Very thanks for readme and my bad english, i will search for CMUD and how it works... very thanks for all.
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1241

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:30 pm   
 
It is easy to make a trigger to make sound when a new line comes in. Look up #BEEP here. To match any line you can just use ^ as your trigger pattern, but you probably want to ignore blank lines, so you should probably use ^%a as your trigger pattern. See here for more details on pattern matching and here for the syntax of the #TRIGGER command.
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:09 am   
 
I don't need more beeps, I ear sounds ALL time, I only need the pointer of the mouse rest in the same line when more lines comes up because the pointer stops in the same place, and lines comes up then I lost the text and when I'm ready again and know whats is happen I'm death now...
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Taz
GURU


Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1395
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:13 pm   
 
lianan wrote:
I only need the pointer of the mouse rest in the same line when more lines comes up.

I would not imagine that will ever be something that Zugg would write into the program. What do you do with the pointer at the time that so many lines have come in that the line you want to stay on scrolls off the top of the screen?
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Taz :)
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1241

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:15 pm   
 
To be honest, I don't think any screen reader that uses the mouse to determine what to read out is going to work very well on a MUD client if you can't see the mouse pointer or the lines coming in from the MUD at all... And if you can see the lines and the mouse pointer, but not the text, surely you can move the mouse yourself just fine?
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:16 pm   
 
Seb wrote:
To be honest, I don't think any screen reader that uses the mouse to determine what to read out is going to work very well on a MUD client if you can't see the mouse pointer or the lines coming in from the MUD at all... And if you can see the lines and the mouse pointer, but not the text, surely you can move the mouse yourself just fine?


Ok, you don't need see for knows your program reader, because use it ALL days, and you know at least what is reading, if you type the up button it read one line up, if you type down button it read one line down, and if you one time types up and read something "wrong" like you are getting x damage from z. You know more up are more lines, with the time and thinking it I found the problem and solution, the mouse rest in the same place, and I only pray someone makes a plugin or option for make the mouse rest in the same line when lines come up, I know you do a program for accesibility I say you it don't works because I need a program for knows what happends with my computer and ask you make it REALLY accesibility, now, you want do it or not?


Thanks
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:26 pm   
 
Taz wrote:
lianan wrote:
I only need the pointer of the mouse rest in the same line when more lines comes up.

I would not imagine that will ever be something that Zugg would write into the program. What do you do with the pointer at the time that so many lines have come in that the line you want to stay on scrolls off the top of the screen?


I really don't understen what you say but I will tray to say it better...

When you are playing with the jaws on, your mouse is the pointer for the line to read, obviously I don't use the mouse then is not problem, but in zmud when the lines comes, the mouse rest in the same place and I lost all lines go up to the mouse.


You kill a rabbit!!
You get a x experiencie.
->there are the mouse.
Killer begins to kill you.
Killer do a super extra damage of 30
->Now I type down button for looking another rabbit.
Killer is doing a skill if you move to another room you will be safe.
->now I read Killer begins to kill you.

Thats is my problem.

Thanks!
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Seb
Wizard


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1241

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:46 pm   
 
Well, that's why I suggested the #BEEP: because if you get a beep, you know there is a new line and you can move the mouse down a line, or if you want to continue listening to that line, you can just count the number of beeps that occur while you are listening, and then you can move down by that number of beeps to see if the last line is a dangerous one and if not you can move back up by the number of beeps minus 1 to continue where you left off. Obviously it has to be a very short beep or it would interfere with the talking.

Oh, I forgot to mention, to freeze the display, press Ctrl-z - this is a toggle, or use Ctrl-Up and Ctrl-Down to move the upper frozen part of the screen up or down a line. You can also press Ctrl-Up when the window is not frozen and it will freeze it. If you press Ctrl-z when the screen is unfrozen it freeze the screen but with the last line just above the freeze line, whereas with Ctrl-Z the lines don't move much in the frozen part (about 1 line down on my display). So you probably want to have your screen frozen a lot of the time with the freeze line almost at the bottom of the window.

I think what Taz was saying is that you have a problem if let's say your window is 50 lines high and you get 51 lines in from the MUD in a second or so: the next line you may want to read is already off the screen! However, if you freeze the screen like I said above, you don't have this issue. However, you still have a problem counting 50 beeps! Especially as only 1 beep can be played at a time, and so probably only 1 or 2 beeps would be played... Instead of beeps, maybe you could get zMUD to play a number, e.g. play the number 5 if 5 lines come in since your last prompt. Or some other rule.
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chris-74269
Magician


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:39 pm   
 
How about you capture every line to a variable and have a separate window open that will output the lines there after you hit a button? This way you could keep your mouse in the alternative window and have it read and you would be in control of when lines would come.
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:48 am   
 
Seb wrote:
Well, that's why I suggested the #BEEP: because if you get a beep, you know there is a new line and you can move the mouse down a line, or if you want to continue listening to that line, you can just count the number of beeps that occur while you are listening, and then you can move down by that number of beeps to see if the last line is a dangerous one and if not you can move back up by the number of beeps minus 1 to continue where you left off. Obviously it has to be a very short beep or it would interfere with the talking.

Oh, I forgot to mention, to freeze the display, press Ctrl-z - this is a toggle, or use Ctrl-Up and Ctrl-Down to move the upper frozen part of the screen up or down a line. You can also press Ctrl-Up when the window is not frozen and it will freeze it. If you press Ctrl-z when the screen is unfrozen it freeze the screen but with the last line just above the freeze line, whereas with Ctrl-Z the lines don't move much in the frozen part (about 1 line down on my display). So you probably want to have your screen frozen a lot of the time with the freeze line almost at the bottom of the window.

I think what Taz was saying is that you have a problem if let's say your window is 50 lines high and you get 51 lines in from the MUD in a second or so: the next line you may want to read is already off the screen! However, if you freeze the screen like I said above, you don't have this issue. However, you still have a problem counting 50 beeps! Especially as only 1 beep can be played at a time, and so probably only 1 or 2 beeps would be played... Instead of beeps, maybe you could get zMUD to play a number, e.g. play the number 5 if 5 lines come in since your last prompt. Or some other rule.


I say before.. the beeps are not good idea, because jaws program read alot of thinks, when you use it you are listening alot of thinks, not only the zmud, when someone conect in skype, or msn, or something like this, when windows do a warning, or well.. ALL, is the problem of use a pc only earing it. If I make more sounds I really turn crazy, ok, maybe is a good idea for know how much lines are coming, but I think is better my petition, really is not posible? no one knows how do it?
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:59 am   
 
chris-74269 wrote:
How about you capture every line to a variable and have a separate window open that will output the lines there after you hit a button? This way you could keep your mouse in the alternative window and have it read and you would be in control of when lines would come.



that's more difficult for me than explaining the difference between the pink and magenta colors
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Rorso
Wizard


Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 1368

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:19 am   
 
lianan wrote:
no one knows how do it?

You could try email support@zuggsoft.com and suggest it as a feature.
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TonDiening
GURU


Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Posts: 1958
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:12 pm   
 
In the past "we've" developed scripts for the screen readers to get the level of detail desired. You choose the detail level required at the moment and the rest silently scrolls off. That way you can go full detail and get it all as you explore something then go low during a combat issue where a compact version of room name/exits mobs in room is delivered.

Probably the best script is the one stripping @#$%; from the channels :P
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chris-74269
Magician


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:01 am   
 
#tr {(*)} {#var scrollhistory %additem(%1,@scrollhistory)}
#KEY F9 {#window scrollhistory %pop(scrollhistory)}

hit f9 every time you are done with a line and just keep your mouse in the window with the scrollhistory. you can add in beeps to lines that are dangerous so you know when to scroll frantically to hear what happened.
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lianan
Beginner


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: spain

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:11 pm   
 
very thanks for your time and your help
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