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Zugg Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:45 pm
Zugg's Low-carb thread
Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:56 pm   
 
Quote:
I heard that diet is mainly a lifestyle diet, where you have to do it forever. I have been reading up on it as I am 6 ft 3 and weigh 325 pounds.

My problem is i really only eat 1 meal a day dinner and i pig out. Other than that i might have 2 snickers bars during the day and mountain dew all day long


As Zugg says, all dieting MUST be a lifesyle change or you get caught in the viscious yo-yo dieting cycle.

Your eating cycle may be a good part of the problem. There is quite a body of research that shows that eating more regularly fuels the metabolism more efficiently and causes a more continual burn, thus using more calories.

I think the first page is where my list of recommended reading is. Check that out. Make the decision yourself.
You might find if you cut out the sugar and ate real food at more regular intervals, you'd lose without making any other changes.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:53 pm   
 
Quote:
For any diet to truly be effective it must be a life style change.


This is absolutely true.
If eating a certain way made you fat, why would you belive that you can diet, lose the weight, and go back to eating the same old way and not get the same old results?
That's what the diet companies would like you to believe, but
they are LYING
They have a vested financial interest in the yo-yo diet cycle. If one diet worked consistantly with no effort, then we'd all be thin wouldn't we?

Quote:
On a final note, think of this, there are essential fats (essential fatty acids or EFA's), there are essential proteins (amino acids) but there are no essential carbs! (fibre is not counted as your body doesn't absorb any of it)


This is correct, but something the grain producers and the sugar producers DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW. There isn't anything you get from carbs that you can't get elsewhere except fiber. And if you eat concentrated fresh natural protein and plenty of fat, your body doesn't actually require fiber because there is very very little waste to be processed so bulk isn't needed. The Inuit ate like that for centuries and are coming back to it. The Masai still mostly eat like that.

Quote:
Another thing to mention is that just because a food is high GI, doesn't mean you should stay away from it. Try and stick with unrefined (clean) food as much as you can. The whole meal will define the overall GI of the food, not one singular part of it!


This is only partly true. Yes, it is definitely true if your system is otherwise healthy, and if you have no food allergies and insulin issues.
For some of us, the insulin released by the sweetness trigger of any high glycemic food will unbalance an otherwise properly loaded meal. Research tends to be done on normal weight, normal insulin, males, so there is a lot of information there produced by skewed research.
This summer we determined that one serving per day of watermelon, high GI, but low GL (glycemic load) along with his otherwise low carb diet is too much. He started getting snippy.
We've also determined that when I added 6 carbs worth of low sugar jam on a regular bases (with all natural peanut butter on a high fiber wheat free cracker) my weightloss slowed to almost nothing. Just that small amount of sweet raises my insulin too much, even though my carbs are maintained at the proper number (somewhere between 30 and 40).

So again, while that is true of people with a properly functioning metabolism, I think there are a lot more people with DYSfuntioning metabolisms than we'd like to believe.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:55 pm   
 
Quote:
One thing I'd like to point out though, is that when carbs are depleted the body turns to muscle first for fuel, rather than fat.


I know this is a standard belief in the bodybuilding community. I don't understand why it remains pervasive.

This is only true in the absence of adequate dietary protein and insufficient calories and fat.

If you think historically, this can't possibly be true.
Consider the traditional Inuit again. Do you think hunting whales, then dressing them out is for wusses? Whales dress out at thousands of lbs.
The traditional diet contains little to no carbs. If you worked that hard and every time your muscles ran out of glucose they started scavenging themselves, then eventually you'd waste away to nothing. It is not economical for your body to scavenge your muscles. It only happens when the body has no other options, or in cases where the muscles aren't being used, like severely ill patients in a hospital.

The human body is designed to store glucose in the muscles after a meal. When the muscles are full, any remaining glucose in the body is mobilized by insulin and stored as fat.
If you are suddenly attacked by a bandersnatch, then your muscles use that stored glucose to run and hide.
If you are hunting, chasing a caribou, following it, sprinting to kill, then dressing it out, that is endurance activity. Yes, your muscles will use the stored glucose first, but then your body will begin to use stored reserves, ie fat. Converting fat into ketones, which are the brain's perferred fuel, and the heart likes it pretty well too.

The body will begin to canabalize muscle if and when appropriate nutrition isn't being received. For example, on a low fat/low calorie diet, your body does not receive enough calories to run the body, and generally does not receive enough protein and various amino acids to maintain the muscle mass, let alone build more. It uses the fat stores for calories, but the body requires more than just calories to run. If you don't give it the right materials, it will use up what the body has to try to keep going, until it runs out.

So, the primary requirment of ALL low carb eating plans is adequate protein. Generally this can be estimated as 1g protein per 1lb estimated lean body mass.

I am still learning about this topic. I am not yet an expert on this fascet. There is quite a bit of discussion on the low carb boards where I hang out. Some people seem to need more carbs than others to maintain their workouts. But everyone there seems to agree that hundreds of carbs aren't necessary, and most agree that 20 carbs aren't enough. I think it has to do the with efficiency of your metabilism, and what you have trained it to do.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:47 am   
 
Vijilante asked for an update, and who am I to ignore my fans?

Low carb is good. So good that it is definitely a habit and I stopped posting because it is now a non issue.

1. We don't get sick any more. We had a few blah days this winter when we may have been fighting something, but you'll have noticed that Zugg hasn't taken any major sick time in over a year.

2. Making sure your household reflects your preferred eating habits is crucial. We could never have stuck to it so consistently if there were evil little contraband snacks lurking in the kitchen.

Every now and then we do stray. One dessert portion on Sundays when we go out for brunch on our day off. A few bites of cake at a birthday party. Nothing is forbidden, so there's no build up, but you'd be surprised. Most things don't taste as good as you think they will once you're off cr@p. And too much will come back to haunt us in the form of Zugg feeling flu-like, or me being emotionally unstable, more colloquially known as 'bitchy'.

We have a very natural food oriented diet. The only things I buy that don't require refridgeration are coconut oil, a very specific brand of mayo, all natural peanut butter, mustard. Oh, and snack nuts and high fiber crackers and diet soda for Zugg. A very short list for an American.

Zugg's diet has been affected alot by my long list of food allergies. The most important one is soy, and that includes the soybean oil that is in almost EVERYTHING commercially prepared. Salad dressing, most mayo, things like spagetti sauce, and almost everything fried commercially. It makes things much more complicated. On the other hand, it really keeps us in line. When we do gatherings with friends, I always bring something we can eat safely, using my allergies as an excuse, and the list of places we go out to eat is very short. I cook a lot!


On the down side, neither of us has reached goal, but neither of us are losing any weight either. Stress is a known staller, so I'm going to assume that's the problem, and ignore it until after the release. But we've both decided that this isn't about losing weight, it's about being clear headed and smart and emotionally stable and healthy, and using those markers, low carb is an unqualified success for us.

Oh, and not low carb, but this is my thread and I'll stray if I want to.

In January this year, we adopted a new kitten, who is tearing about the house brigning joy and destruction. Zugg is completely wrapped around her little whiskers. This brings the cat total to 3.
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Tech
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:32 pm   
 
I'm glad the low-carb has been such a success. I can't claim to have been so diligent but I've long ago cut out sodas, junk food (cookies, candy bars etc). With the occasional lapse, I've been pretty good. Like you said if you don't buy it, you don't eat it.

My girlfriend who is rather health concious has got me eating more vegetables, more whole grains, and grains like quinoa and millet are replacing rice. It makes a difference. We try to do most things organic and all in all I'm healthier for it (although I did not go willingly into that good diet... Very Happy ) The downside is that I'm finding more and more, that even though it's worth it, it's generally expensive to have a healthy diet in this country.

What is the name of the new kitten?
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edb6377
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:32 am   
 
I on the other hand am exactly the opposite lol my target weight for my height is around 220 and im about 65-70 lbs short and have been most of my life. I cant seem to put on weight for the life of me LOL.

I certainly try and probably have to revert to hiring a personal trainer when i can to figure out whats going on cause i eat like a horse and i eat good foods.
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MattLofton
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:44 am   
 
Quote:

I on the other hand am exactly the opposite lol my target weight for my height is around 220 and im about 65-70 lbs short and have been most of my life. I cant seem to put on weight for the life of me LOL.

I certainly try and probably have to revert to hiring a personal trainer when i can to figure out whats going on cause i eat like a horse and i eat good foods.


Have you seen a doctor? Hyperthyroidism is a possible reason, assuming the cause is medical. It might just be that your ideal weight doesn't match the charts.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:11 pm   
 
edb6377 pick up a copy of Life Without Bread. The author talks alot about several case studies who went from too thin to a more sturdy frame on his plan. Worth a look.

Quote:
The downside is that I'm finding more and more, that even though it's worth it, it's generally expensive to have a healthy diet in this country.


That is certainly the truth. Cutting out grain fillers really cuts into the grocery budget, and decreased medical costs only balance so much. But smart is worth a lot.


The kitten's name is Isis. The older cats are Tesh and Cicada.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:07 am   
 
Time for another update.

We're on Vacation. Most of you already know that.

In this context, Vacation means Vacation Eating Rules.

We've always allowed the occasional dessert when eating out. A release valve is necessary to prevent pressure build up. But while on vacation, we've allowed more than we normally would, more often. Our rational is, if we had actually gone somewhere for vacation, we'd be eating out 3 meals a day, and we'd want more freedom in our choices.

We have kept the 'no contraband in the house' rule, and that has kept things reasonable. I still can't eat things I'm actually allergic too. But desserts have been nice.

And we've been slacking on the gym.

The really good news is, neither of us are feeling sick from it, the treats have been enjoyable, but not all that, and I think we're both ready to get back to our usual habits. I've gained a few lbs, but that's almost certainly water from the suddenly higher insulin levels. A good vacation from the straight and narrow, for the first time in 18 mos, but definitely not a long term shift.

Neither of us have lost lbs in quite a while. I've been reading about stress and the evils of cortisol, and I'm very hopeful that that is the problem, so it should go away now.

But even it if doesn't, we're still in this for life. The mental and emotional benefits make it a no brainer. And have you noticed, even with all that stress and long hours, Zugg never got sick? And he didn't collapse with something during vacation, the way a lot of people do once the stress is released.

Yep, Low Carb is the Way, the Truth, and the Light here at Casa Zugg.
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Alyssandra
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:16 pm   
 
I have a question for you Chiara, since you seem pretty well read up on this. I am really interested in the idea of a Low Carb lifestyle, however I have a bit of a nightmare with Food Allergies. And having looked at the things that are "allowed" I would have a pretty much unvaried diet which would just result in me getting bored.

I am allergic to Eggs and Dairy Products and due to a blood disorder I can't eat much Vitamin K so things like Spinach, Cabbage, Asparagus etc (dark green veg) I can only have in very small amounts.

Do you have any ideas?
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:59 pm   
 
Quote:
I have a bit of a nightmare with Food Allergies.


I feel your pain. I'm intolerant of cassien (although I still use butter and minor amounts of cream), gluten, and violently allergic to all forms of soy, plus a whole list of other foods like bell peppers (a major low carb staple), celery, mint, and walnut. My body also doesn't tolerate splenda in more than minute amounts, and I think that's the most annoying one of all.
I'll admit, it isn't always easy, but the health benefits have been worth it.

Is your goal weightloss, or just improved health from lower insulin levels and a less refined diet?

Most of the books only suggest very low carb levels for the first few weeks, and the primary purpose of that is to help you get over the hump of sugar withdrawals and to speed the transition to fat as your major fuel source. You can do almost anything for 2 weeks.

Protein power, for one, allows you to eat absolutely anything that is within your carb allowance, whether it is 1/4 cup of corn, or 2 cups of broccoli. Plenty of fruit will fit into those daily allowances. "Life without Bread" only advocates taking your carbs to 75 per day, also with no restrictions on what you can eat, for maximum health benefits.

Some people have to keep their carbs very low to lose. Some people can get the same benefits at 50 or 60, which allows things like winter squash and sweet potatos.

The next time you're at your local book store, pick up a copy of "Living the Low Carb Life" by Jonny Bowden. He gives a clear overview of 17 popular plans, you might find one that looks like a good fit. He does not advocate starting very low, but at 50 carbs per day, then testing from there. I think his book is the most readable overview of low carb information.
Also, peruse the cookbook section and look at the cookbooks by Dana Carpender. Flip through them and see if the recipes are things you could try and make a life of.

Can you eat things like leaf, romain, butter, and red leaf lettuces? Those are less dark. There are plenty of other low carb veggies like bell peppers, mushrooms, summer squash (which is often available all year round these days), hijcama, radish..you'll know better than how to manage your vitamin K problem, but carb counts are readily available. I have a problem with too much iron, so I avoid things like spinach too.

Are you allergic to all dairy, or just cows milk? There are a lot of good goat products out there. Sometimes dairy can be substituted with coconut or nut milks. My local healthfood store carries almond cheese, and it isn't bad. For people who don't think it is evil, there are a lot of soy products on the market.

There are a lot of varieties of protein powders out there. I've been making fun and interesting protein shakes for meals, and that's given me some new variety.

It will be limiting, I won't kid you, but I doubt as bad as you think. It just takes a little practice. After a while, I bet you really don't miss a lot of the things you stopped eating. At least, thats what we found.
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Alyssandra
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:40 pm   
 
Thanks for the advice. As for Dairy its only cows, I am fine with goats milk but its very expensive over here. Soy I can't do it has massive amounts of Vitamin K. Most leafy stuff I can eat, I just have to make sure I balance how much I am taking in so my vitamin K intake doesnt get very high most lettuces I could only have maybe a leaf or two at most.

But anyway thanks again.

Zuggsoft the only software company with a low carb forum :P
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:47 pm   
 
Quote:
Zuggsoft the only software company with a low carb forum :P


Yes, well, It's my webforum and I'll post what I want too...

If you're interested in a very active low carb forum, try www.lowcarb.ca, and choose the support forum. There are a lot of people from the UK who post, and there are plenty of discussions on things like food allergies. I hang out there a lot.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:39 pm   
 
We're going to be flying for the first time since low carbing.

I'm looking forward to taking my new smaller shape on the airplane. Very few adults actually fit on airplanes, but I think I'll be much less uncomfortable.

The issue is going to be food. This is our first long trip since going low carb, and it's the first where we won't be in complete control of our food plan.

I'll admit to some trepidation. Some relatives will be very accommodating. My Grandmother has celiac after all, so the family is used to odd food needs.
Its the less accommodating I'm concerned about.

I've packed several bags of jerky, our favorite nuts, and the one kind of treat I can actually eat. We'll have our own car, so worst case we'll have access to groceries on our own.

I'll report back when we return.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:51 pm   
 
I am ecstatic to announce that for the first time....ever... we did not get sick from traveling! Not a sniffle when we got home.
Unprecidented!!

Airplanes are better. The relatives were accommodating, and all went well.

We also went on a 1.5 hour hike, which would not have been possible pre-low carb either.
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Tech
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:02 pm   
 
This is random ( and is probably obvious to others, especially Zugg and Chiara). Over the past week it occurred to that a low keep is much closer to the diet of our ancestors (especially once they started eating meat) and that's part of the reason why it work in tune with the body.

Also being that we didn't have any processed food we ate a lot more whole grains, which is why our bodies have been tuned to respond best to them.

Just thought I'd share.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:19 pm   
 
There is actually a faction of low carbers who call their plan "Paleo" and their goal is to eat only that which was available to hunter-gatherers of pre-agriculture.

The longer Zugg and I low carb, the closer to paleo we get, except that we still use butter, and Zugg eats a lot of cheese. Less refined just has to be better I think.


Concerning the issue of whole grains. Dr.s Eades of Protein Power have a whole appendix about research done on Egyptian mummies. Egypt was one of the first primarily agricultural societies, and they are also one of the first to evidence heart diseases, endocrine disorders and bad teeth, among other problems. This and other easily available research, like the new numbers indicating that nearly 30% of the population is now thought to be gluten intolerant at some level, leads me to believe that grain is not good for humans.

That isn't to say I don't understand that grain made civilization possible, and that humans have been eating it for centuries. But the damage it does is slow, not preventing humans from reproducing. I don't believe we're really adapting to it.

Certainly the high gluten super refined flours that make up most commercial breads these days, especially in the US, the home of the world's worst bread, is as bad as it is possible to be. High gluten flours didn't become popular until the advent of mechanical bread making. It isn't actually desireable for making dense chewy homemade bread.

I'm not sure anything sold in pre-packaging in the US could possibly come under the spirit of the definition 'Whole Grain'.
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Ralgha
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:45 pm   
 
I'm asking out of curiosity here. Do you know anything about
this? If so, what do you think about it?
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:03 pm   
 
I'd never heard of "The China Study" before, but a quick google indicates that it is in favor of a vegan diet.

The author is a member of Physicians Council on Responsible Medicine , which is actually an animal activists group that strongly advocates a vegan diet. They are the ones who wrongfully obtained Dr. Atkins autopsy report and published it, encouraging the press to misunderstand what they were seeing. As a practice, I never believe anything anyone on PCRM says.

If you read the reviews on Amazon.com, there is a scathing one by JayY that contains a lot of good studies that counter what Campbell says in his book. This review of the follow up book says flat out that breast cancer is linked to dietary fat, and that has been catagorically proven as false in several recent studies. It also says that plasma cholesterol is correlated to protein intake, and that is also completely untrue.

So, while this is the first I've heard about it, I'm not impressed.

That said, I have nothing against vegetarians. If people decided to make a choice based on ethical considerations, I can not and will not argue with that. My own sister is an ethical vegetarian. But if people are choosing a vegetarian lifestyle based on health, then I think they're making a big mistake. You will never be able to convince me that humans evolved to prefer a vegetarian diet on a biological level.
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Rainchild
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:47 am   
 
So, sorry to drag up a necro post, but it's your 3 year anniversary of this new lifestyle ... how's it all turned out?

I mean from a Zugg-not-getting-sick perspective it seems to have been a complete success. How'd it turn out in the weightloss department? Did you reach a goal weight? Has the lack of carbs kept you at that goal weight?

I know one of the "scare monger" tactics against a low carb diet was to say "oh but you'll get high cholesterol", has that been a problem for you?

So in the post-xmas aftermath, I put on about 10kg. How'd you fare by comparison? :D

Now it's time to spend the rest of 2008 losing 15kg so I can put 10kg on next xmas and still be ahead of the curve...
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:13 am   
 
Always happy to talk endlessly about low carb!

Zugg and I are both much, much healthier. You've noticed he hardly ever gets sick any more and when he does its quick.
I also don't get sick, plus I got to go off a bunch of meds, particularly for hypertension. (Even though I'm still bigger and considerably older than when I went on them in my early 20s)

Weightloss? That's been stalled for both of us for a while. It may be because of some food intolerances I developed and then had to figure out. It could be stress. Some of its almost certainly the surgery I had last year, and some is not always being as strict as might be advisable. On the other hand, we're both within 10 lbs of the weight we originally lost to, so no gaining back, which is a statistical victory.

Cholesterol? No problem with cholesterol. Almost all the fat we eat is saturated. Coconut oil, bacon dripping, butter...
My numbers the last time I had them checked were:
Cholesterol 160 100-149
Triglycerides 41 0-149
HDL 55 40-59
LDL 97 0-99

Risk ratio 2.9 standard 3.4

When HDL is really high LDL is the big fluffy not dangerous kind. Triglycerides is the number to really watch and thats ideal. My dr. is ecstatic.
I haven't forced Zugg to the dr. lately so I don't have numbers for him.

We were pretty relaxed over the holidays. My weight stayed exactly the same. Zugg seems to have gained about 3 lbs.

We're still keeping at it and we've actually been getting stricter at home. I no longer eat dairy or grains and I make everything from scratch. Don't invite us to dinner. I've become one of those weird people who doesn't eat food. My current dietary philosophy is known as 'paleo'.

Except for a brief hiatus over Xmas to permit a small amount of chocolate treats to go in stockings, we don't allow contraband in the house, and we generally stay pretty low carb all the time except for the odd issue with desserts when out.

This year the goal is to eat out much less and to watch things more closely in the hopes of finally getting back to losing. But maintaining is good too if we get to be energetic and healthy.

We absolutely could not have had and enjoyed our trip to Yellowstone pre-low carb.
Now I'm going to stop before I get all evangelical!
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Fang Xianfu
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:37 am   
 
I actually read this thread in its entirety after seeing its shining position on the stats page. Very interesting stuff it was too, and I considered waving the chicken bones myself after reading it. Good show, Rainchild.

Excellent to hear an update, too, Chiara - feel free to keep posting them whenever the mood takes you. It's a very interesting topic.

My perspective on weight loss is that people worry far too much about it. Provided that your weight isn't putting you in extreme and real danger, I don't think there's a compelling argument to lose any more unless you have a specific reason to. Since neither of you is gaining anything back, it sounds like a real victory as well as a statistical one. The impression I got from the rest of the thread is that good health was much more your concern than weight loss for weight loss' sake, anyway, and it's great to hear that you're doing so well there.

Thanks again for the update; I don't mind the occasional evangelical rant ( Wink ) and it's good to hear peoples' experiences of things like this.
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Chiara
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:23 pm   
 
Wow. I had no idea this was one of the most viewed threads. How odd.

Well, as a poster previously pointed out, we are the only software company with our own low carb forum. What can I say, we take the health of our employees very seriously!


Quote:
My perspective on weight loss is that people worry far too much about it.


I absolutely agree. I think if I hadn't spent my 20s dieting on low fat, I'd have never gotten as big or as sick as I did.
We both were and are of a size where that's still an issue along with health, but if I have to pick one, health wins hands down, which is why we haven't gone off even though neither of us has lost anything in a while.

Quote:
I don't mind the occasional evangelical rant


No no, that was polite conversation. I haven't gotten to the evangelical rant phase yet.
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Rainchild
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:55 pm   
 
Yeah, we have a couple of friends who are red-meat-free, dairy free, wheat free, gluten free, citrus free, organic-only, umm I'm sure there's a couple more too. It gets really difficult to choose a suitable restaurant for them, easier to say lets have a bbq and you bring whatever you can eat hehe.

I think there's a lot of problems with the 'diet' stuff these days, it's all very processed and often very sugary. I've also pretty much given up artifical sweeteners (used to drink 2 litres of diet soda a day) because I think it contributes to some skin allergies I have developed in the last few years since I started drinking diet soda.

At the moment the boss of the house has decided that we're doing weightwatchers, but I think the main problems I have with weight are:
1) I love eating (it tastes sooo goood!)
2) I love eating to excess (it really tastes soooo gooood!)
3) I spend 100% of my day in front of my computer (it tastes sooo good?)
4) I spend 0% of my day doing excercise (ewww, exercise!)

:D

Anyway, keep us posted as you see fit, it is an interesting topic, and if you have spare time... maybe we should have a "Chiara's Low Carb Recipes" blog so we can borrow some meal ideas :)
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Zugg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:07 am   
 
Wow Rainchild...what you do drink instead of diet soda? I'm completed addicted to diet soda and probably drink about 2 litres a day too. I know that the artificial sweeteners are not good for me, but I've had a heck of a time figuring out what to drink instead. I only drink caffeine-free diet sodas, because I know caffeine causes problems for me. So I know that all I'm drinking is water with chemicals in it now. But I just find normal plain water *so* boring.
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